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Messages - Suuper-san

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MR Pub / Re: Chit Chat 2021
« on: September 20, 2021, 10:58:57 AM »
You guys are just fabulous the lot of you. I can feel so much healing energy coming my way!!!!

I'm not feeling any worse at the moment still just a heavy cold kinda feel.
But all the better for your positive vibes.

I've been catching up on manga reading which I haven't done lately which is a nice break.

MR Pub / Re: Comeback/holidays/departure notice.
« on: September 17, 2021, 12:29:05 PM »
I took breaks way more when I first started out on MR, I think I've been active this time for a couple years now without a large break :P

MR Pub / Re: Chit Chat 2021
« on: September 17, 2021, 12:17:14 PM »
sure thing thanks guys :)

MR Pub / Re: Comeback/holidays/departure notice.
« on: September 16, 2021, 07:24:19 PM »
Just FYI I'll not be around MR until probably the end of the year. I know I'm not on here much but yeah. My art is going pretty nicely and I just want some alone time to work out some kinks and make some massive improvements, and also perhaps get some writing experience without the self-inflicted pressure to post everything I make.
So I'll be seeing you all real soon.
PM me if you want to get in touch.

Manga Art Gallery / Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« on: September 16, 2021, 07:21:26 PM »
@Manimal thanks! to be honest I was actually aiming at an overloaded style, so the remaining details are yet to be added. Partly it's for practice, partly I just like it crazy busy.
And thanks yeah I've been getting a lot of practice at drawing stuff with minimal guidelines but still presenting the concept properly. part of the secret is using a thick solid line.

Well I have finished the second set of my regimes-regime. It took nearly a month this time as I was crazy busy with all sorts of stuff. In fact I don't ever remember my schedule being so packed previously. A little annoying as it's been so distracting that even on my art time I've not been able to focus as I would have liked.

But I've managed to do a bunch of sketches and a couple other things so here's how the last few weeks went.
Overall 1105 sketches/items have been drawn in this set, and it took 48 hours of work. I'm really hoping to boost my focus and improve the turnaround time for the next sets.

See here for the non-illustration part of my project:,7141.msg308186.html#msg308186

Linearts +12
Most of the lack of quality is due to the very old undersketches. My WIP queue got a bit stagnant at the higher levels of quality due to my focusing mostly on sketchy sketches. But I'm making good progress getting through them and moving onto slightly higher quality sketches to ink. Overall they're alright but I'll need to put some different line weights in at some point.


Resolved Sketches +36
This is one of the main focuses of this entire regime, as resolved sketches offer a lot of learning in terms of accuracy, proportions, and details. I'm still changing up the WIPs I'm starting with and adding more BG elements and details such as extra characters, motion, props etc. So far so good but I think I just need to get a ton of experience working to a higher quality like this. Bizzarely the feel of the pieces is similar to my Finalised Concept stage, but has a much higher quality level


Finalised Concepts +90
I'm doing more of these than planned previously to make sure that I have a good flow of new good-quality sketches through to the next stage of resolving. I found that I get a massive quality boost at the beginning of the sketch by spending a minimum of 1 minute trying to improve the idea. By waiting just that tiny amount of time, the consistent boost to my ideas is fantastic. The overall sketch time doubles from about 4 to 8 minutes as there is a lot more detail added, but that's fine, as the sketches are far better and worth the investment.
I had so many good sketches I struggled to narrow them down to these.


Original Concepts +105
These are using vague text prompts and I generally draw in my comfort zone for these. But overall I'm producing a higher range of ideas, even in my comfort zone these days. I suppose that's proof of my growth or something. I'm using a solid  brush for these and it speeds up the sketching by 25% at least. Because my concepts are fuller I'm fitting less on the page than I did previously, but that's probably not an issue.


I have added a few additional stages of work to my project to balance the type of work being produced and work on my weakest areas - concept and originality.

Finished Concepts +48
These WIPs use a fragment of an old sketch to spark an idea for a sketch. Mostly it's headshots or figure poses that I'm working with, so it's a little harder to come up with something interesting. Also I might just have been having a bad day when I did them, as there's less variation than I would have expected.


Altered Sketches Experiment +48
This stage uses previously generated sketches to give a core of a sketch, which I then draw alterations over the top, to create a new concept, but at a lower mental cost than drawing a new one from scratch. I generally change up 50% or more of the original sketch so I'm never doubling up on WIPs. About 1 in 8 I completely redraw anyway so there's a lot of new interesting ideas being generated. I try and work outside of my comfort zone and draw stuff I dont normally, like sad situations, old people, robots etc. A lot of my crazy cool ideas come from this project.


And an absolutely brand new project:
Original Characters +12
This actually overshot my target by a massive margin since I had no idea what I was doing. All I was trying to do was draw something that I have never drawn before. And somehow I ended up with these crazy looking monsters and creatures. Which wasn't really what I was aiming at but I ran with it. Next round I'll be working more on human characters specifically but developing outfits,props,hair,face etc to make them unique and interesting.
But I will definitely revisit the monsters and draw more at some point. It's an incredibly different style to my cute girls, but it was still fun to draw. Especially in an interesting manga, you have to draw a bunch of stuff, so it's all good practice.


In addition to my massive regimes-regime, I have finally gotten myself a confident ballpoint sketching style for comfort zone pieces. I've always sketched at this quality for years, but this is the first time I've consistently been able to do it, sketch after sketch. Partly that's thanks to doing more practice drawing with minimal guidelines, as well as thinking about the drawing I want to make before even drawing the first line on the paper. So I'm hoping to do more of these on my commutes to build up some experience in my traditional medium.
The proportions are still a little too loose for my liking but they're not crazy wrong like they used to be. And the final shading and line quality is very acceptable.


And then thanks to figuring out a nice comfort level quality for ballpoint I somehow also created a new comfort level digital illustration style. I drew this one as a test but it was super casual and I felt that I could have drawn several more to the same quality without much effort. The concept, pose, outfit range is quite limited when working to a comfort zone piece but again, with experience you can increase the range of work you produce. I'm thinking I'd like to do more of these but I dont have any immediate plans since they dont offer much in terms of experience as I'm drawing from my comfort zone. This one had a bit of issue with proportions because I skimped on the guidelines, I'll change that for next time.

Well, that's all folks, as they say.
I'm actually going to take a break from MR until probably the end of the year, just because I'm a bit busy and I want to sort out myself for how I'm learning and my goals and targets for the near future, and I think it's easier for me to do that completely on my own. So I'll see you all around later on. You can always PM me if you want to get in touch.
Onwards and upwards.

Comics and other Gallery / Re: Suuper's non-manga art
« on: September 16, 2021, 06:28:42 PM »
Another set of my regimes-regime has been finished.
Here's some highlights of the work I've produced and any relevant thoughts.
See my main art thread for the illustration part of my regimes-regime.

Traced Manga +8
I'm hoping to reduce the quality to increase the speed, for practising fast-accurate lines. I'm using this regime half for basic coordination practice and also to pay attention to manga panel composition etc.


Copied panels/pages +16
(not traced)
I'm gradually increasing the detail level and number of panels I copy now. I'm also gaining confidence for backgrounds.


Finalised Figures +30
These are still proving tricky but I made my pen line thinner to force me to pay a bit more attenion to muscle detail and I think I did better than the last set.


Resolved Figures +100
This style is quite gappy with the solid lines, but pretty well conveys the basic form and angle of the given pose. I think this is near the top efficiency and really I just need to make sure I'm covering a good range of poses and getting used to difficult angles.


Inked Faces +100
I previously drew these quite sketchy, but I've reverted to a solid line style, but I'm inking with quick, definite strokes rather than trying to follow the undersketch. This is giving a fairly dynamic feel to the lines, but I'm still having trouble with some face angles, especially from under, and 7/8. I'm focusing more on facial expression range than hair.


Inked Hands +100
The quality on this set was quite lacking. I think I was just having a bad day and kinda rushed. I was trying to have solid confident lines but it still ended up looking quite sketchy and proportions were off.


Hand pose concepts +200
The quality and proportions of this stage has been lowered, partly due to using a more solid brush. I'm fine with the massively low quality as long as the sketch conveys the information I need to draw it again at a higher quality.


Figure pose concepts +200
These are getting a little easier to draw at high speed, but I think even with prompts I'm missing out on certain types of poses. I'm not really sure what, though, so I'm just spamming these out to get general experience.


MR Pub / Re: Chit Chat 2021
« on: September 16, 2021, 06:01:46 PM »
Guess who tested positive for you-know-what? me!
Literally every day since the school term started we've been sending kids home with covid, it's a joke. It was only a matter of time until I got it. So far I've just got a bad throat but it's my first day of symptoms.
So I've been imprisoned in my room by my parents, hopefully they don't catch it.
meh, what can you do?
hopefully I can draw while I'm not at work but I might end up bedridden so watching this space closely.

Manga Art Gallery / Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« on: August 22, 2021, 02:39:10 PM »
I'm thinking rather than posting at the end of the week, now that I'm in more of a rotating tasks workflow, that I'll just post whenever I finish a complete set of sketches. That way I'll be sure I'll have something to say as I'll have a bunch of experience and sketches between my posting here.

As it happens I have finished a complete set now. Mostly it was just figures and hands remaining so the only sketches I have done are new concepts in my previously quite successful massive sketch page. All in all, about 1000 sketches of different sorts, about 250 actual sketches and 750 regime items.

Here you go, 124 sketches. 12 prompts in a massive 3x4 grid, so about 10/11 sketches per prompt, and only loosely following the prompt words. click to enlarge. You can sort of see where the grid was by the margins of white between the sketches.

I honestly haven't had a great week, working at about 35% of my new target at the moment, but I think I'm working out the kinks. It's a new workflow after all, and it's quite a different feel the way I'm tackling it to previous. Mostly it's been fatigue that's been the problem, I'm oversleeping a lot and so losing a lot of time from my morning slots. As always no clue why, could be weather or anything.

While I have used time as a general productivity statistic, I am now minimising my focus on the amount of time I'm spending on tasks and overall each day. It's actually quite distracting, and depressing when I'm not reaching my targets. So I am now primarily focusing on output and just getting stuff done. This way I'm sort of doubling my focus on the current task, rather than worrying about how much time I'm spending on it. So far it's helped a little I think, we'll have to see long term how these major changes work out.

I'm pretty confident in my new workflow but I'll have to wait a few weeks at least to see if anything sticks and if it's maintainable long term. One of the immediate benefits is that because the regime is organised in sets of sketches, it ensures a uniform production of sketches at different levels, something I have never been able to balance previously.

I have also finished the second stage of my new maximum level illustration project, here are the 4 draft sketches:
Since this is a sort of new project I'm still not quite sure of my workflow and how much effort to put into different stages yet, so I'm just working comfortably through without too much worry. I'm aiming at about 80% quality for these ones, and then the next set will be 100% once I know what I'm doing.

So that's all for now, I'll see you all sometime within 2 weeks hopefully. I'm hoping to pick up speed and efficiency for this project and really churn out some work. hopefully :P

Manga Writer workshop / Re: WRITING SURVIVAL!!!
« on: August 22, 2021, 02:21:36 PM »
That was a pretty cool read, definitely would want to read more. might even make a good manga.
a super distopian feel as always.
pretty sure I've seen the future determined by genes in some film...ah yes, Gattaca. I never saw the end for some reason.

quick question, for character design, do you sort of start with a generic stereotypical character and then add details to make them unique or do you just think them up like from scratch? I'm struggling to figure out any method for character development at the moment.

Manga Art Gallery / Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« on: August 17, 2021, 02:44:31 PM »

I think the drawing cat example is more of technical skill being applied to being able to draw other things
Ah yeah that was sort of the idea I was going on, that regardless of style a lot of technical ability is the same, understanding form, light, shadow etc.

Thanks for the advice, I've definitely got improving my line quality on my to-do list! I'm relatively confident that I can improve my lineart so I haven't been focusing on it too much, but for my next manga I hope it will be a much higher quality.

Manga Art Gallery / Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« on: August 17, 2021, 05:18:00 AM »
ah that probably disproves my theory a bit then ahaha.

The only method I have no respect for is the "don't draw anything and complain you're not good" one true
like a student not paying attention in class, getting a bad grade and blaming on the teacher not being able to teach properly.
art is so badly misunderstood in terms of "talent" and whether you have it or not, literally anyone can learn a skill like any other.

Manga Art Gallery / Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« on: August 16, 2021, 02:26:38 AM »
ehehe glad to give an answer. it keeps me on my toes that my methods are still working when I have to justify them.
Although only when I truly feel that I am a good artist will I be able to say that these methods actually worked. At the moment it's just a casual feeling that I'm going in the right direction.

I have always had a theory that if someone drew nothing but cats, and got really good, they would also be good at drawing people even if they had never practised it.

Now I don't care to test that theory but the opposite seems to be coming true, that I'm getting better at drawing animals with disproportionately low effort. I've even got better at drawing circles and straight lines.

So the reason I think that many different methods are all successful is because skills are interconnected and simply "doing art" is the only major requirement for improvement.

And we are all coming from different backgrounds and so our base skills are all different to begin with.

Manga Art Gallery / Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« on: August 16, 2021, 12:49:39 AM »
Well to put it simply, I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't feel it worked, and was the best for me.
But as you say, there are many acceptable methods of learning which vary greatly.

Partly the reason I work in bulk is simply because I have so many ideas and sketches I want to produce. So probably the main intention of the bulk method is to produce bulk work :P
I started working with bulk to get through more sketches quickly, and then took the idea and used it on my regimes later on.

When I say bulk that's partly a misnomer, I don't work on many individual sketches one at a time. It's closer to say I do batch work. I also work in iterations within each batch, so I'm usually focusing only on a minimal number of things each iteration.

Here is a breakdown of the most recent sketch page I did, with some explanations of the iterations and stages, as well as what I think are the benefits
My resolved sketch page that I last completed starts like this. Fairly old sketches, and pretty low proportions. Ideally they would be more up to date sketches, but it's all good practice.

My first step is to spice up the concepts and improve the ideas that I'm working with. Generally this improves the variety of poses and complexity of the background, as well as clothing.

I draw a rough thumbnail to make sure the figure is in the right place and approximately the right proportions

I then work at a closer zoom and improve the quality of the figure sketch, redrawing it and adjusting minor proportions.

I add additional guidelines, mostly vanishing point lines etc.

I then draw my entire sketch. sometimes I do the BG on a separate iteration, but lately I've been doing it all in one go. I'm deliberately keeping to a lower quality because very minor issues I can fix on the inking stage later on. There's no need to have a perfect sketch at this point.

Most of my different stages of work (Lineart/Resolved/Concepts) has some form of iteration that breaks the tasks into simpler steps of work that are all the same.

The advantages of bulk/batch work, including regimes (which are often just one single task, repeated), in my opinion:
-You are building up a stamina for producing a lot of work, especially if your target is to produce a manga or many sketches.
-Each stage gives an opportunity to fix previous mistakes. Therefore you don't need to be perfect until the very last stage.
-When working on the same thing repeatedly, you start to streamline your process and improve your workflow. This helps improve efficiency and reduce wasted time.
-Same as above, even without improving anything, by working through iterations of specific stages i.e. figure/guidelines, you are working more efficiently than if you were to do each sketch to completion on its own.
-Because you are working on many sketches, you will tend to try and make each one different to the next, so you are making sure you produce varied work instead of almost the same thing over and over.
-Same as above, you tend to come up with more unique ideas because you have exhausted your "default" ideas.
-You start to build a habit of certain work, partly muscle memory, partly good habits, and this carries over into your normal work as a new skill.
-At least as far as I am concerned, I know I will forget a lot of what I learn. I just have a bad memory. So bulk helps to enforce the things I'm learning over and over until it's part of me.
-Because of repeating things over and over, you get used to certain parts of a sketch, a particular pose, a hand position, expression etc, and it no longer is difficult to draw that thing.
-Another minor advantage is you don't waste time making new files and saving images all the time since you are working on a relatively large single file. I have a quick applet that splits each set back into separate images, and so no time is lost creating the grid of images or breaking it apart at the end.

To me repetition is useful in building up a strong memory of skills, just like when learning a language you would practice phrases until you have fully memorised them. It's not necessarily a massively efficient method, but I find a simple inefficient method is easier to do than a complex efficient one.

A lot of my methods and ideas are taken from my programming experience, as well as some basic psychology knowledge from Wikipedia articles.
Amongst other things, you might find these articles interesting. A lot of my workflow is built around these concepts of thought and productivity. And not just because I read these articles, but I directly noticed the issue and discovered it had a name by researching it. So I have confirmed all of these cognitive issues exist within my own mind.

Also this one is super useful for why I'm always working sketchy and never at my full 100% ability.

Hope that sort of clears up my thoughts on the matter :P

Manga Art Gallery / Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« on: August 15, 2021, 03:00:32 PM »
@Ryan how you doing? long time no see :P

yup I've really been pushing myself to increase my output and improve my skills even more. I'm so close to a passable level of good skill now I just need a final push to round off the corners that I've missed so far.

thanks for the advice! You are 100% correct that I need some line variation, in fact I started trialling the different 2/3-stage thickness styles a while back here,4319.msg304145.html#msg304145

But I put that skill on hold; as with many of the skills I need to learn, I'm focusing on what I consider more important skills in my linearts at the moment. I find I improve the most when I completely ignore certain aspects of my skill to focus 100% on other ones. So in this case, I'm ignoring line thickness and prioritising line accuracy and efficiency. I figure it will be easier to learn how to draw different thickness lines, than to actually draw the lines in the right place to begin with. I'm still all over the place when it comes to 3d form and so on, so something as fine as line thickness is the least of my worries ahahaha.

Thanks for the breakdown and tips, I'll definitely take that on board when I finally tackle that part of my style!

Well I had hoped for a bit more of a dramatic reveal, but my schedule hasn't been as supremely amazing as I had wanted.
Basically I've been procrastinating far too much and only in the last week have I started to rev up my focus again. In fact I realised how far my focus has been lost the last few months, as I'm starting to be back in the zone more and it's a very nostalgic feeling. So the manga project did highlight a massive problem with focus I think, I'll tackle that another time.

My new-and-improved skill grinding regime has begun. I'm pulling out all the stops, again, for some hopefully massive experience gains.

Ideally this is a weekly output of things that I'm aiming for:
7x1 Warmup page
1x8 Traced Manga Pages
1x16 single panel copies
4 hours masterpiece work ~1 piece
1x12 Inked WIPs
3x12 Cleaned WIPs
2x30 Finished WIPs
1x30 figure finalised
2x50 figure cleanup
2x50 face regime
2x50 hand cleanup
1x12 large text concept sketches
2x100 figure pose concepts
2x100 hand pose concepts

Almost everything on the list is a regime in itself, except my WIP work. So this is a regime of regimes, hopefully.
I wrote this list first, and then did a rough calculation of the time required to actually do it all, and it works out at 60 hours a WEEK. So that's nearly double my comfortable maximum.

The target is several-fold:
1) Improve my focus and schedule to devote more time to art in the week. I know this is completely possible, I just have to actually get focused. I'm aiming to squeeze 100% of my allocated time into the art, and not waste a shred of time elsewhere.
2) Improve my discipline. Sort of same as above, but I'm trying to remove motivation from the equation. I want to wake up, feel awful, and STILL get on with my art projects. This is related to gaining a professional mindset, and will be necessary if I'm ever to become massively prolific.
3) Gain experience and skill from the included regimes. This sort of goes without saying, but the regimes all focus on different skills individually and so I'm hoping they will all work together to improve my quality, accuracy,efficiency and speed.
4) Observe any speed gain as the project goes on. This is more likely something I will check at the end, but I want to know if my speed increases for the regimes and WIPs and so on. Speed isn't the most important thing I know, but I'm sort of making a bet on how I can make the most of it.
5) Improve/Optimise my art style. I've generally been quite lax in developing my art style, but I think to gain the next level of skill I need to commit to a direction, even if I change my mind later. I'll be working on "masterpiece" illustrations where I try and produce art that I actually want to produce.
6) Work through my older WIPs to finally have a pipeline of WIPs that actually get finished quickly from when the first sketch is made. At the moment I suspect I have about a 5 year pipeline (could even be more tbh), I need to trim that down to 6 months ASAP. Obviously I can remove a ton of WIPs to achieve that, but I'm using the sub-par WIPs as a worst-case scenario training for my art skills. i.e. learning to improve a badly drawn sketch.

Something I noticed from my massive manga project was that because all the tasks were related, I couldn't pick and choose which tasks I did. They all had to be done in order, regardless of how I felt about that task. I thought this would be inefficient because of lack of motivation, but the opposite happened - I started to gain momentum because I always knew what task I was doing next. There was less lag switching to a new task, and I was able to force myself through the tougher tasks I didn't like to get to the ones I did like more.

So my list above is also the order I will be working through the tasks each week. I dont really have a minimum quality target for any of the tasks, the more important thing is that they all get done. Once I have a massive discipline I can focus on improving any lost quality.

As always I have doubts and concerns that the way I'm going is a strange one, but it's enjoyable and I'm definitely improving, so I think I'm on the right track.

This list of tasks will probably have to change after a few months to include more writing tasks, such as short stories, character design, and so on. I'm aiming at another manga quite soon, but not before I level up my writing and other lacking skills in the manga department.

So far in the 2 weeks since starting the project, I've only got down about half the items. That's about 75% of the work though, so I'm aiming for finishing the next set within 2 weeks and we'll trim the time down from there.

Here is some of the best work I've done in the last week:

"Cleaned WIPs"
I have adjusted the line style to be stronger and more definite, like an ink pen. The overall quality looks lower, but these sketches are meant to be inked afterwards, so it's all about expressing the idea as accurately but as quickly as possible. if I spend too long on this stage I end up with basically a lineart anyway, which isn't what I want.


"Finished WIPs"
These are really finalised concepts, and so the focus of these is to express the concept as quickly as possible without losing the main proportions. If I'm lucky they come out quite good, and it makes my life easier on the next stage, but sometimes the concept is a new one, or a difficult pose, and it ends up not entirely great :P


That's all for now, I'll probably post again in 2 weeks once I've done another set.

General Manga writer discussions / Re: Writing Log
« on: August 09, 2021, 03:52:44 PM »
that's a super fair point, and I sort of thought that might be one of the reasons to not to. I only work with quite generic flat characters at the moment so even though I dont know what they are saying or doing exactly I can ballpark it enough.

but yeah even if it's just one line, progress is progress, and you'll move forward fast enough.

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