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Author Topic: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)  (Read 136260 times)

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Offline Suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1440 on: January 05, 2020, 08:46:25 AM »
Sunday report:

well it's been a choppy holiday and I go back to work tomorrow
but overall I've done a lot.

I'm getting very close to forcing myself to be permanently in the zone, or at least improving performance and focus to my upper levels more consistently.

I've done 18 linearts this month already, putting me at 45/100 so far. I'll probably go over 100 just to clear out my old sketches. The overall lineart quality is pretty low in terms of accuracy, but the lines themselves are sort of ok. I'm still fixing errors as I come across them ,but there's only so much I can do working without guidelines.

I'm cracking on with all my old sketches up to 2018's now. Ideally I want to be no more than 4-6 months behind myself as there is too high a variation in skill when I come back to them. Not such a bad thing, because I can improve them and make a good idea but a poor implementation into a good idea with good implementation, but really I'm ready to take on proper projects and get my styles and goals in order. I think 2020 is a year of cleaning up as fast as possible with the idea of starting proper stuff in the second half.

Masterpiece level sketches:
I've been wondering for nearly a near how to actually do a high level piece. And it's taken on a similar form to my normal WIPs, I just do extra stages of cleaning and fixing at each level. So it's still under a sort of time constraint and order of work. so it'll probably produce a 80% maximum level piece.
I found that after working on a masterpiece sketch, I went back to my normal WIPs and they started to come out at a higher quality as well. so the focus and accuracy stayed, even though I was working at my normal speed. So working at your highest quality i think is a form of working outside your comfort zone, and you start to improve. Several years ago I said that I would kick myself for not doing this sooner, and I pretty much am indeed kicking myself XD

Here's one such sketch, at the "finished sketch" phase:
I worked on 4 sketches at a time, of course :P



It would normally take 4-5 minutes to do a sketch like this, but despite the extra time put in, it didn't seem so amazingly good, but it certainly isn't bad, so maybe that's the expected level. Also at the finished sketch phase, there's a limited amount of detail and sharpness I can add to make it look good anyway, so this might be the natural limit of this level, as it's meant to be improved on later anyway.

I did 2 pose layers and 2 face layers (one normal and one with the view mirrored to fix slant issues), and didn't rush any of the steps, did more erasing/correcting of mistakes. I've also tried doing a larger thumbnail for getting the perspective right, but that's more of a full body problem.

So it will be a while before I see any results because I have to work on the next phases as well.

My open canvas method is fantastic as always and super stress free. I do find that I'm doing much more studies than sketches lately, which I suppose is not a bad thing.
I can see me starting more canvasses for working with different styles, and especially for producing complete artworks form beginning to end (as a counter to my WIPs). Something similar to my daily sketch, but a bit different - I produce 20 original sketches, and then in the same file I go back and clean them up and then I go back and ink them, without saving them as WIPs for finishing later. This will be good for working on images which all have a sommon theme, such as fanart, or for trying out a new style or something. That is something that my general WIP workflow can't handle, because the sketches all get mixed up at every stage.

I'm looking forward to Mondays and Tuesdays, because despite being my work days, I'm making them "work and art only" days, so I come home from work and immediately the rest of the day is spent on art. This is also really good for keeping my spirits up at work when things get stressful.
Rather than 5:30, I'm going to try and push back to 5:00 waking up time, simply because I can get a good uninterrupted peacfeul stretch of drawing time in the mornings.

Also while I can't pick an artist that I like to just study them , I've got a loose folder of favourites that I've saved over the years and so I'm going to study them at a bit of a slower pace, looking at line quality and colouring and shade, all sorts of areas to see ways that I could learn and change.

And then at some point I'm going to pick my favourite skecthes of my own that I have done, ones that seemed to be their own style, and try and develop them into a style of their own. Not sure how I'll do it, but looking forward to that.

Overall everything seems to be accelerating and moving up a gear for productivity and basically, everything. I'm wondering if this increasing activity/productivity is also something you pick up as an artist, because I was certainly never this organised or focused, or active, or even productive, several years ago.

I'm gonna see what else I can get done today as it's only 2pm. Hopefully should be good :)
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Offline Suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1441 on: January 10, 2020, 02:25:40 AM »
A ballpoint sketch page I did last night. Took maybe 30 minutes or more. wasn't really rushing at all.



I picked up a new sketch style yesterday which helps with laying things out, so it's more like a guideline sketch, not an actual art style I guess. It's sort of a super light but full size thumbnail, to help with the initial placement of everything, which helps because often I've sketched the upper body without any idea what I'm even doing with the lower body, so this gives me a chance to lay the most important guidelines very fast (~20 seconds), but without a shred of accuracy - it's "close enough" at that point to be useful, and when sketching over the top, I can fix the major issues with my normal guidelines.
It's also super useful for copying difficult images or poses because you sort of block the different areas first, so you know that each area has to fit in the block you've drawn. I'll give more examples when I actually understand it more haha :P
I don't think it replaces the thumbnail because the thumbnail is actually me planning the sketch from nothing, and then I lay down the guidelines, knowing what my design actually is.
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Offline legomaestro

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1442 on: January 10, 2020, 12:18:26 PM »
All hail the ballpoint!  Looking pretty awesome there suuper, and I'd love to see what that looks like in action.

Offline Slammer

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1443 on: January 11, 2020, 03:14:19 AM »
You're doingg reat Suuper! One thing i would pay attention to is your arm lengths; In your newest page the second figures arms are quire stubby, in the last sketch the left arm was really long compared to the right. Keep up the great work

Offline Suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1444 on: January 12, 2020, 03:52:36 PM »
@lego I've realised that my skills in ballpoint have both improved and worsened at the same time. I found that sketching was a bit harder than I remember, but shading was a bit easier. meh. always room for improvement

@Slammer thanks for pointing that out. I think part of the trouble is that my style varies greatly, so both might be correct to their own style. But yes I think her forearm especially is a bit too long maybe though in that one. I need to be more consistent for sure.

My traditional style also varies a little from my digital style, probably because the way I hold the pens is different.

Well I'm back from my couple day excursion, got a bit to post but I'll do that later. I did manage to draw while I was away, including on the flight, and I think overall my art has had a nice boost since the last time I did traditional. I want to do some pencil sketches and then ink over the top, and see how that looks too.
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Offline Suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1445 on: January 14, 2020, 04:12:15 AM »
My quick holiday sketch dump from the weekend. A5 sketchbook.
My sketch book is starting to look a bit more what I expect when I look at other artists sketchbooks, like where everything is complete and lots of little sketches, as opposed to absolute chaos and random hands and stuff.

Spoiler




Suddenly went super realistic compared to normal. This is what I mean when my style is completely unstable. It just plain switches.


Possibly one of my best shaded pieces for folds, especially with ballpoint.


A bit of perspective work. Working out the different perspective planes that a pose can go in, so I just pick one and do a sketch at that angle, is the general idea.


And then suddenly loli everywhere.....









I must admit I found it difficult to add detail without sketching too much with pen and ruining the clarity of the sketch, compared to years ago when I drew a lot in ballpoint. I'm assuming that's because I'm actually properly sketching guidelines as opposed to starting a render and just winging it (which lead to high chances of a rubbish sketch which I then stopped working on).
Partly I wasn't sketching lightly enough though, because of digital pressure-opacity/size being a bit more linear than ballpoint pressure-opacity which suddenly becomes solid at 30% pressure.
I would have liked to do some pencil sketches and ink them, and then erase the pencil sketch. But I didn't take any pencils away with me :/

Also I'm not sure when or how to scan in my sketchbook to continue processing the sketches digitally. I can probably get my flatbed to do the trick, but do I do it when my sketchbook is full, or every month or what?

I've also made a bit of another change in attitude.
Since starting my daily sketch I've been very consistent at doing that, but not really consistent in doing anything else. And I started to wonder, hey maybe I could do a manga page a day, kinda thing. That's too hard at the moment, but what I am doing, is straight after my daily sketch, is doing 2 linearts from my WIPs. Every day is the plan. Followed by my hands regime for ~20 hands.
So really trying to get a proper level of consistency and working on art because of habit, not because of feeling up to doing it. So a stronger habit to override feeling of not botheredness is the plan.

Also it's hard to explain but I've partially given up on being completely spontaneously original or varied with my sketches. I tried for a while to make each sketch (not my daily sketch) super different to the previous one I did, but it's hard to keep switching in and out of different genres and ideas. So now I work within a single genre or idea for the whole session of sketching, and just change when I feel like it. A lot more stress free and I can explore the genre a little better.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 04:17:21 AM by suuper-san »
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Offline Suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1446 on: January 15, 2020, 02:22:34 PM »
Finally did one of these. Now I have proof that my style is 100% chaotic :P
I feel like I have improved a lot but does it even look like it? I've mostly not actually produced anything at my highest level, close but not absolute highest.



I might go back in time and do the previous couple of years but I can't be bothered at the moment.

Template here
https://www.deviantart.com/asterianmonarch/art/2019-Summary-of-Art-Template-Blank-822921609

I've kinda said it all for my 2019 summary, but basically I've learnt a lot about flow and doing things in an organised way. It's efficient in the long long term, but short term (i.e. the entire of 2019) it lagged my art seriously.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 02:26:31 PM by suuper-san »
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Offline legomaestro

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1447 on: January 15, 2020, 02:25:02 PM »
EDIT: Wow just as I was about to post haha.


Oh gawd I do not want to do this for my year. I'll have to face my ameteur hour and cry hahaha






Man I have a legit sketchbook sketchbook but after some live drawings I haven't been working on this. Looking at this is inspiring. And yesss ballpoint.

I haven't sketched with ballpoint in a while as well. The texture is good too. That page with the clothing folding is working quite well, and now that I think of it you've always had quite the knack for that side of things. You make even normal looking sweaters kawaii on your chars. I want to learn that.

Guidelines make the world go round.

About change in attitude: Consistency is a win of itself, but I can get that about not hitting the other marks. A manga page a day is actually a pretty fair thing to get into! You could even do it iteratively where you go from sketch to finished product so say 40 days for a 20 page fully inked manga.

Damn that's an awesome regime. Every week has you at 14 line arts on WIPs. 140 hands a week. Awesome! I want this consistency.

It looks like things have become consistent for you after 5 weeks. I'll see how I feel if I hit that mark.

And I get what you mean with the spontaneity bit. It's actually why my lows are so intense sometimes: I don't have a regular idea of what I even want to draw, get too many ideas, rage quit and do nothing instead. Heck, it's why drawing cubes was one of my most fun excercises.

Have you been drawing from life recently? Magazines? Just curious.

All in all keep it up, suuper!

Offline Suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1448 on: January 15, 2020, 04:52:11 PM »
haha nice timing :P

Well unless you do a similar level of work each month, it doesn't always show off your progression as well as a redraw-piece meme. Especially in my case, I didn't do any proper coloured work for pretty much half the year, so the comparison is skewed awful. And both you and I have been working on regimes and core skill, which can't really be reflected in random pieces of work, perhaps.

Regarding the clothing folds and shading, I have a very limited scope of how I can shade them, I pretty much every time roughly sketch large curvy moon shapes, and put shade either side of it to make it look like a fold. So lots of crescent shaped areas of shade in the middle, and on the sides of the clothing, shade which tapers towards the middle. so a half crescent shape. That's pretty much it, and I've been winging it like that for the whole year. Only now I'm getting serious do I realize how little I know of folds.

Quote
You could even do it iteratively where you go from sketch to finished product so say 40 days for a 20 page fully inked manga.
You absolute madman, you read my mind!!!!!!
I will 110% definitely do the manga pages iteratively for sure.
Because of the huge scale of manga page complexity, I'm sort of letting it simmer in my mind for a bit first, as I don't have a story or anything to do, or characters, that sort of thing.
But you're pretty spot on for the 1 every 2 days thing. Depending what quality I work at I might be able to manage 1 a day, but I'm trying not to overload my schedule. Actually, for my first manga, I probably won't ink it at all, as I'll need to get the experience producing the draft pages, and I'll already have the inking experience from my linearts. I'll be doing experimentation in the weeks to come, but hopefully before April ends I'll have a plan of sorts. I've got writing WIPs to figure out as well. More on that later :P

Quote
Every week has you at 14 line arts on WIPs. 140 hands a week. Awesome! I want this consistency.
That does sound pretty cool when you say it like that. I had got so used to aiming high I didn't realise how huge that actually is lol
And, well, I've been wanting this level of consistency myself for years. It's been a constant battle to adjust my personality itself to have different priorities and to avoid procrastination etc. And I still relapse all the time, browsing memes and all that T_T. my 100% efficiency mode must be immense if I'm achieving this much on less than 100.
A lot of my growth as an artist has been related to my growth as a person, really. I've spent a lot of time looking at myself, to see how my thoughts work and what triggers different moods, how well does autosuggestion work, how does inspiration work, things like that. Not as crazy as it sounds haha

It's just like a new diet or excercise plan, it takes a lot of effort at first but as it becomes a habit it becomes easier and easier.

It might help to break down the goal you personally have into lots of small steps that are easier to take individually and ramp it up i.e:
-Go to bed before XX
-Draw one line a day > draw for 1 minute a day > draw 5 minutes a day >draw a whole page a day > draw 1 hour a day
-write a diary entry a day > write about an event in your day in script form (heck that's a good one I didn't think of that! well, I did XD) > write about an imaginary event > write an idea for a scene > write an idea for a story > write a short story
-Draw one good sketch idea a day > draw one good sketch a day > draw a lineart a day > draw a coloured sketch a day

Quote
I don't have a regular idea of what I even want to draw, get too many ideas, rage quit and do nothing instead. Heck, it's why drawing cubes was one of my most fun excercises.
Well, it's a good idea to write or sketch down as many ideas as you can, when you have them, because that can really help when you're in a low. That's been part of why I've been able to have consistency is because I have contingency plans for when I don't feel like doing anything.

Quote
Have you been drawing from life recently? Magazines? Just curious.
A LOT more from life, totally. well I say life, I mean photos. I use Google images a lot more these days, I search a term and save the top 10 or so images in my reference folders. All sorts of stuff, props,clothing,poses,hair,animals,buildings.
My main source of clothing, face and body poses/shading at the moment are fashion websites. The models are often lit really well, so you can see shading quite clearly, and obviously there's lots and lots of clothing ideas. The poses are also well suited for illustrations as they are all "posey poses"
And a close second for reference is manga, both manga pages that I have saved and then sorted into groups (face/building/magic etc), and also illustrations from DeviantArt, Pixiv, Safebooru etc, for styles of shading and copying artists styles. I havent been doing much but I've been doing more.
As I said somewhere previously, "inspiration is anywhere and everywhere", and, so is reference, I think.
I also take my own photos of hands/face/poses/clothing/buildings as well.

So my daily schedule is nearing full at the moment:
-Daily sketch
-2 Linearts
-~20 Hand Sketches (gotta get this finished it's nearly taken a year)
-~5 Clothing shade studies
-~5 Body shade studies
That's a rough 2 hours block of time I think. Afterwards I'll flick around other studies or WIP pages, whatever I havent done for a while.

weird, that was meant to be a quick reply.....XD
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 04:58:51 PM by suuper-san »
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Offline Suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1449 on: January 18, 2020, 04:29:17 PM »
Filled up another page of daily sketches.
I switched to a x16 grid to do 2 nearly full pages a month.



I've been looking a bit too much at other people's artworks and I now have a strong self loathing for my previous self confidence again :/
But I'm going to do a lot more of copying illustrations rather than copying manga pages as the individual illustration quality is much higher obviously.
I was basically starving my inspiration the whole last year. It seems I've always got a lot to learn. Oh well.

2019 was a year of catching up and sorting out.
2020 is a year of improvement and production.
or something like that, maybe :P

gotta get my WIP stack out of the way - I think that's causing more issues than it's solving now. I might try and adjust my WIPs more and be more creative. hmmmmm.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 02:32:36 PM by suuper-san »
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Offline Suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1450 on: January 19, 2020, 02:33:25 PM »
I think I've lost my way
big time.
I've been looking back at my old art as well.
at some point processing my WIPs took priority over actually getting good at the type of art I want to get good at. I've been gaining lots of skill so it's not wasted time by any means, but I'm not sure what to do.
problem is I still want to finish my WIPs. it's a pride/honor thing. But many are outside of the genre I want to actually draw in normally.
I don't know whether to change them more as I go or finish them as they are. I've already made lots of changes to them anyway.
For art and other reasons I wish I could go back in time and kick my 17 year old self. who doesn't I guess.
I think I'm going to spam finish all my WIPs. Every single one in my standard list.
I've got 4035 (at different levels). pffft.
(I'll be dropping some that are sub-par though)
I'll probably feel better in a day or two.
But I think I have a lot of latent skill that's waiting to burst forth. Sort of like I always say I'm on the edge of a breakthrough, but more that once my WIPs are out of the way my art will seriously jump in quality with my new sketches and new direction of art.
better to be optimistic than pessimistic I guess.
watch this space.

have a chibi
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 02:35:30 PM by suuper-san »
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Offline Lord Kesashi

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1451 on: January 19, 2020, 07:38:41 PM »
Well your work ethic is ideal for manga art production considering how demanding it is. You are making progress, but an important thing to consider are the standards you're shooting for. Because you're mastering the art of your own style.

There may be a lot you can learn from imitating other styles, as you said you've been looking at other artists. I hate to suggest that because I hate it when they give those kinds of assignments in my classes. So multiple times I've been given the assignment to copy a "masterwork" from an established/famous artist, and I personally can't stand it.

I bring this up because I've dealt with a lot of critiques of my work over the years, and from someone who doesn't really understand how art is made will critique it based on their desired style, rather than critiquing it based on your desired style.

You could say "I wish this sketch here was colored". But obviously your goal was to draw a pretty girl, in black and white focusing on form and line and fabric and beauty etc. That's sort of an extreme example, but with people who understand art a little better understand their biases are specific to them.

I bring this up because when people impose their ideals onto you work you can start to produce work that's based on their ideals instead of your own. Typically this results in you being very dissatisfied with your work and probably art in general, but it does also result in some major growth. Because once you retake your art with your own stylistic approach, you'll have a much more full perspective of your style.

Leonardo Da Vinci has some approaches to using dry media that I'll never really agree with, but at the same time I did find myself emulating some of his approaches that I really liked. And it really helped me with my realistic work.

I think you might be hitting a wall less because you want your skill to develop and more because you want your style to develop. I personally spend most of my time looking at other people's work. The more diverse the work is that you expose yourself to, the better. My professors say all the time that we need to "steal" from other artists in a sense: capturing our favorite elements from their work and applying it to the context of our style.

If I were you, I would aim towards producing something like a manga. I love to just draw portraits and portraits and portraits but as I develop these characters, the characters demand to express themselves and to be seen interacting in specific locations and telling their story etc. So you have this mountain of practice, but not necessarily product that you're practicing for. Which could be a full body portrait, like you're doing, but it could go farther, like the work you did for your free requests board. It could also be good to see what fruit your practice produces to see where your practice could be lacking, and it would be better because you would see exactly what you need, instead of wasting time learning things that won't be relevant to you.

Offline Suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1452 on: January 20, 2020, 03:58:27 AM »
I think you're 100% right in that the issue is style not skill. As I was looking through my artworks and WIPs it wasn't the proportions that were worrying me at all, but the composition. Like all my pieces suddenly became boring.

I do have a manga in the pipeline pretty soon but the style I want to develop is more of an illustration style than a simpler manga style. So really there's 2 completely different styles that I'm aiming for. I'm probably going to chase the illustration one first because out of the two, that's what I'd rather be doing.

I suppose that means that I have improved in my ability to analyse . I'm hoping it leads to better more interesting art. Last year I was focusing on proportions and workflow and attitude, and as you say I have gained an impressive work ethic, especially for producing a manga. I am overall very pleased with how my proportions improved and perspective, but I think it suddenly just got me like a ton of bricks how uninteresting my designs are. So I sort of panicked I think haha.

Thanks for the tips. I'll probably do some sort of copies of my favourite artists, but whether it's a sketch or a full blown artwork remains to be seen.
I keep saying the road ahead is long, but maaaaannnnn is it long.
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Offline Suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1453 on: January 20, 2020, 03:15:02 PM »
Albion, a mage in the royal courts. He's a bit different to normal mages who focus on magical ability only, and believes that strength can come from many sources. He's good at close combat and proficient with precise magics. Despite his young age he holds a high rank and has a highly regarded opinion among his peers.

Here he is in a prebreakfast workout. Both his mind and his body. Make sure to swap arms halfway though!


Drew this on the train going to work.
All things considered it's not bad.
I'm working on improving my style now as Kesashi suggested.



Edit:
also, a cleaned WIP, but at my "standard masterpiece" level. Putting about 2-3 times the time and effort. And there's still things not quite right. A bit annoying but I'm not aiming for perfection with this level, but just very very good. I'll start a perfection level at some point, but I think even I won't be able to work in bulk for that :P
Working at a higher level should unlock new abilities I hope :P

« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 04:03:43 PM by suuper-san »
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Offline Echo_River

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1454 on: January 21, 2020, 09:39:14 PM »
I'm really liking that x16 grid sketch page you did. The poses, clothing details, and shading seem to mesh well.
Actually the sketchiness to them is rather appealing I think XD Even with that one you drew on the train.
No one is perfect . . . that's why there's erasers and extra paper.
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