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Author Topic: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)  (Read 90207 times)

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Offline Echo_River

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1410 on: November 24, 2019, 09:16:30 PM »
Whoa that is some dedication there on that canvas!
It's always neat to see your studies suuper.
No one is perfect . . . that's why there's erasers and extra paper.
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Offline suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1411 on: November 26, 2019, 02:02:21 AM »
@echo thanks!
I'm breaking up my studies on different canvases and working on them all at the same time, and then I just sort by date last modified to see which ones I havent done for a while, so it's been really helpful in pointing out "you haven't done hands for a while" and so on.

anywho here's my most random page, a mixed manga copy page. Because I sort my references into much more sub groups than I care to have study pages, I have a catch-all study page that covers all the genres that dont have their own page. props, effects and material renders are some of the things that end up in this list.



I'm doing a lot less WIPs at the moment while I get my bearings, and especially, finish my requests. Although it's gone more 20-80 studies-WIPs, into kinda 75-15-10 studies-WIPs-requests lol

I'm improving faster than I can actually finish my WIPs which is not so much frustrating, but intensely annoying.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 02:05:43 AM by suuper-san »
Art: Manga / Fanart / Requests (closed) / Other | Manga Stories: Overdrive / Endlessness
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Offline suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1412 on: November 27, 2019, 07:43:00 AM »
Did another 20 finished sketches
I've noticed that my attitude to processing my WIP levels is different to when I am doing a regime of processing a level. i.e. just finishing a batch of sketches in between my normal stuff as opposed to working on 100s of sketches all at the same level. I think that you do build up a momentum when focusing on a certain thing, as the 1000x regimes certainly prove. but when you stop the regime, you will start to lose that momentum as you start to focus on different things. I don't think that's avoidable really. having said that, I have a plan, which is basically doing larger batches of sketches at the same level rather than rotating between every level. so for 2 weeks do this, then 2 weeks the next thing. Like a mini regime. So you make the most of each stage while you can.

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Offline suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1413 on: November 30, 2019, 02:15:28 PM »
At the end of each month, I make a bunch of statistics, so in view that I'm meant to not be on here so much, I'll be posting a little review of each month as it ends instead of my normal uploading (at least, I'll try to shut up!)

I've been using my new workflow for about 40 days now, and it continues to grow in the number of open canvasses I have in my working folder (now at 33 files and growing!). Because I rotate between them, it's actually quite efficient, and makes sure that I'm doing regular studies on different things such as faces or hands etc. It's like an automatic checklist, of sorts.
It also has a benefit in that I don't feel pressure to do any amount of work, I can just open the file, do a couple of sketches and save it again. I've found that my original sketches are more creative and varied than if I tried to do say 20 all in one session.
There is a slight drawback in having too small a drawing session amount, that it takes a few minutes to actually warm up, so you have to commit to at least 5 minutes I think haha. I'm averaging 12 minutes per session.

I have also been getting up at 5:30 and drawing for between 1 and 2 hours every morning. At least that's the plan, I do oversleep occasionally, but it's been pretty stable. And in the evenings I do other stuff and drawing if I can. But the mornings is the main stretch.

So a combination of a better workflow, and a better routine, has resulted in drawing for 52 hours this month. That's better than every month this year (nearly double most) except Jan and Feb (bear in mind I didn't have a job then)

In terms of WIPs done, I've only finished 40 sketches, the lowest amount since starting processing WIPs. But I have done a lot more studies, which were critically needed. I have started an original sketch page so I'm now generating new ideas each month as well. I'll boost my WIPs as soon as I finish my requests.

The requests have been processed rather slowly, but surely. It's always in my list and so it nags at me until I give in a do a layer of sketching. So it's a good workflow for things that don't have a deadline. I was hoping to finish all my requests before December but I really didn't give it enough time so meh. Compared to doing no requests for nearly a year, I think 1 every 3 weeks is fab.

So it's been an excellent month in all, and it looks to be a fantastic December as the winter holiday approaches. I'll get 3 weeks off work so thats 6 entire days of drawing hopefully :P

I've started working on manga layouts as well, although only today did I set it up, so I'm not sure how it's going to work out. I've got a copy page and a creative page. I'll be attacking manga pages the same way I work with my WIPs, working out different levels of sketches and how to present my ideas in the most time effective way, not wasting time adding too much detail too early on etc.

My current theory is that the majority of the creative process is in the first 10-20% or so of a sketch, and then it's just fleshing out after that. So I think practicing "generating ideas" will lead to the greatest amount of growth in terms of creativity. We'll see.

When the year ends I'll have another bunch of WIPs that are yet another year older, so I might have a bit of a frenzy to cut the number down. I've also finally decided to cut away WIPs at the inking and colouring stage. I don't want to spend time on work that is below par, and because of my constant improving, it's resulted in some WIPs in the queue that aren't fit anymore. I don't want to put them back in for more fixing, because I get the feeling I will get the same problem later on as I improve even more. So I think it's a necessity to remove some, otherwise I'll be stuck doing sketches and no linearts for forever. And it's come at the right time. I knew this would happen ages ago, but I wasn't prepared to do it, and I am now.

I've nearly spent the entire year just doing sketches, and other than my requests, I haven't done a single finished piece of my own. It's been beneficial, but not so great on my self esteem.

-suuper out
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 02:53:54 PM by suuper-san »
Art: Manga / Fanart / Requests (closed) / Other | Manga Stories: Overdrive / Endlessness
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Offline Coach Fro

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1414 on: November 30, 2019, 09:38:14 PM »
Holy crap dude you're like the most efficient person I've met on this forum lol. Everything you do seems so mapped out and well thought out. The whole making statistics at the end of each month seems like a neat idea. It definitely gives you a clear sense of progress.

I would try some of your methods myself, but I can barely make myself a weekly schedule lol. I'm so free form with everything I do that mapping out my days by the hours feels kind of restrictive I guess. Then again, maybe that's why I haven't been getting a lot of writing done lately. 

Regardless, it's always nice to see the improvements in your work. Keep it up!
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Offline suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1415 on: December 01, 2019, 02:54:22 AM »
haha thanks!!
Partly it's my love of statistics that leads me to work in a way that generates statistics, and yes it is indeed a great way to check productivity.

But I certainly haven't always been efficient or organised like this, I've had gaps of 6 months or more with not a single drawing done, and I have no idea how I thought I would get good at drawing like that. I'm annoyed that it took 7 years or so before I figured out how to deal with WIPs, partly because I had never considered it a "problem". The moment I saw how I could take my sketches and finish them, everything accelerated. I could finally see a path to the end goal.

Really it's a result of me trying to figure out my self, what makes me tick and how to get the most from my personality and abilities. And this is the result that I arrived at. It changes almost every month slightly as I perfect my methods constantly. And I'm never performing anywhere near my targets, which are insanely high, so it's always pressure to keep moving forward.

I think having a big goal to work towards is nice. Mine is basically to be a pro illustrator or manga series writer, so I know I've got to have a high output no matter what if I'm writing weekly.

So it'll be different for each person. It's basically saying "what makes me the most productive?", "why was X day more productive than Y day?", "what can I do to get in the 'zone' more?", and so on. And just because you've always done something a certain way, doesn't mean it's the right way, or the best way for you. So you have to have a bit of a "challenge everything" mentality.
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Offline suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1416 on: December 05, 2019, 07:48:55 AM »
Just doing a bit of grave digging in my artworks trying to figure out stuff and found these old copies i did, I've posted them before but seriously they are so good it's confusing.

Spoiler
One of my first ever copies of manga. Literally so good


Same again but I wrote the times for each one - about 10 minutes for each one.


This stupidly good copy took about 6 hours and is still one of my best pieces ever.


Fariy tail because why not.


The Erza's eye one was one of my first of a very few colour copies, and it's pretty on point.


And these are 6 or so years old or more.

So this is really confusing because I still don't think I can copy at that level, but I can't have gotten worse, surely?
And then I realise something really interesting - the amount of time that I spent doing those copies is astronomical in comparison to the copies or original sketches that I do now. I haven't spent 6 hours on a piece EVER except that Rozen Maiden one. And it's my best one.
So literally time is the multiplier for skill that I had forgotten about for so long. If you spend longer on something, it typically turns out better than if you rush it.
But I think partly the reason I was always aiming to improve my speed was that I already could copy if I took the time, I just wanted to get faster. So once again I find myself on a very strange path that my decisions have lead me on.

For me these days, giving myself 30 seconds to think about a sketch feels like a lifetime. But I don't want to be a slow artist haha

It's not really positive or negative, just an observation. I'll be doing longer time sketches anyway to get some nice pieces so I think overall my methods have worked out. But it's been a strange journey.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2019, 11:12:04 AM by suuper-san »
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Offline suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1417 on: December 06, 2019, 04:00:02 AM »
Did 4 linearts, the first of many. I haven't done proper linearts since March or April, so it's quite a big jump in quality since I last did it.

I'm starting on my older WIPs that I queued for linearting, but are actually lower quality than my current standards, so I expect another jump in quality when I hit the proper quality of undersketch

since I also don't really like drawing guys, a lot of the male characters end up in the fast track for completion as well haha



Also my pen settings are all over the place I keep changing them to get a nice feel for an inking pen. I don't even know what thickness I want, like super thin sharp lines or more expressive thicker/varied lines. meh.

It seems I'm taking 15-20 minutes to ink a sketch compared to about 8-10 previously. That's either accuracy, quality or complexity, but something is sucking up the time. I'll be able to speed up a little when I get in the flow, but I think that's a common trend in my art - the better quality sketches take more time.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 12:07:52 PM by suuper-san »
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Offline legomaestro

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1418 on: December 07, 2019, 04:26:55 AM »
Late reply haha
I rarely see this kind of character in manga haha. Jeans look pretty cool. That's a hairstyle there. Intelligent teacher type? I can't place his age for some reason.
And yesss. Draw more dudes. Or don't do what you want XD.
I hear you on the pen thickness thing. It's driving me mad a bit. What makes it worse is that different canvases need different sizes and yeah.
That jump in inking time is interesting. But yeah, the longer you take on something, the better itll be for sure


The mixed manga copy page is pretty interesting. During my copying of Bleach it was hard to go through a bit because I lost interest while going from A to B. Perhaps if I isolated elements and characters I wanted to draw I would've felt more motivated to do stuff - and maybe if I did it on an infinite digital canvas I'd feel even better haha.

Re: 1000x momentums yes absolutely. I mean just look at the sheer number of things we've produced over time, suuper. I know we tend to play it down but it's pretty mindblowing to see that scroll bar go tiny and say 'wow. That was me doing this.'

Re: Statistics. Daaamn. I'm so glad you got whatever spark it was those 40 days ago to work at this. This is truly proving to be succesful. The getting up at 5:30 thing to draw is even cooler! I should think of that.

52 hours in a month. Jeeez.

I like your theory about a sketch. If it's true I can do a lot of major projects by nailing that sketch phase, and than later refining them to make them look a bit better (My sketchy habits are still going to be there though haha.)

I can totally understand about no personal pieces. It's the sacrifice that I'm doing too to be honest, but I really want this sketching/productivity question out of the way so that i can focus on actually sketching/drawing and doing what I want.



Re: Looking back

Now that's an interesting phenomenon. I think I saw it myself too. I used to do portraiture from movies and they turned out pretty well. Grayscale painting that makes me think: Wow, I used to have patience back then.

I suspect time is definitely the factor here, and also as you mentioned yourself you're more focused on excercises and studies right now. I think when you're doing stuff for yourself rather than for streamlining the drawing process you'll be sure to come up with some cool things!



Offline suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1419 on: December 07, 2019, 02:59:10 PM »
Thanks
The character is a 40-something archaeologist, at least that's the idea. Since I don't draw older characters hardly, that's probably what caused the age confusion :P
There's actually very little that I don't want to draw, but there's plenty that I want to draw more than others, which is why I'm constantly drawing cute girls :P

I think the jump in inking time is also because I'm a bit out of practice, I don't have a method or style, and haven't tried working faster yet, I'm still just figuring it out. But yes the higher quality will mean I will never get it back under 10 minutes I'm sure.

Isolating elements to study or draw is a great idea, and really that's why the 1000x regimes work so well. But apart from learning the individual elements, one needs to lean how to combine them, so overall composition is something that needs to be studied too methinks.

Yeah haha my 1000 finished sketches really was a great output, and the insanely high target kept the pressure high to achieve my maximum speed and efficiency. I think as one achieves more, and gets used to it, they naturally get ambitious to achieve even more haha
No matter how good an artist gets they always aim higher, huh?

Getting up early is fantastic, I've tried several times in the past to get it going, but perhaps only now that my drawing is less stressful (no pressure to do a whole page of anything), I can get up with much less effort. But you're gonna have an insanely early bedtime haha
I overslept to 10am today so it's not perfect yet XD

yeah I'm glad to be drawing so much. well I just checked and I've drawn for 24 hours this month already so I'm on target for 100 this month. I'm sort of aiming at 2 a day minimum now, although building up the habit takes time.

I looked at my history of usage in the last year and it's quite intersting. Not having a job meant that in January when I was doing my 1000 sketch regime I could really dish it out. The hills of higher/lower activity are also thought provoking. It looks that I'm on track for a new all-time high, I hope. And hopefully it stays high this time.

Here's the amazing graph. Hurrah for Excel.
The dip around July is my holiday, so I was drawing on paper instead.
Spoiler

I've just thought that I now want to do a graph that shows when in the day I draw, and how that has changed through the year. What a pain, I'll do it when I can be bothered :P

For my sketch survival sketches I draw a thumbnail first and it really helps for getting an idea down before "starting" on it, and when your idea is more solid your sketches reflect that as well. So it's better to spend a minute or two to think, before even putting pen to paper. That's the direction I'm leaning in now, although I hate spending more time on stuff, time is the ultimate wall. Kinda like a last boss, that if you defeat it, you can do anything.

I've spent so long doing practice and studies that I'm still not sure what I even want to do for personal pieces. I'm thinking I'll start up a couple of one-shots when the requests are out of the way. I might pick some of my favourite artists and do some illustrations in their style, or my version of their style. That will help to branch out and learn at the same time as enjoying myself.

I think I had a lot more patience back then as well. I think when you don't have experience you don't realize how fast you "should" be drawing, so you take much longer, resulting in comparatively better pieces. When you realise what is technically possible in shorter times you tend to limit your time to match your expectations, rather than aiming for a higher quality. maybe.
But quite a few people have said, including on MR, that one should occasionally take time to produce a maximum level piece, to properly assess your level. That's on my list and it's pretty soon, probably after I finish my requests again. Gotta get that embarrassment out of the way XD
Hopefully spending a lot of time on a personal piece should result in something fabulous, but we'll see :P
« Last Edit: December 08, 2019, 01:36:48 PM by suuper-san »
Art: Manga / Fanart / Requests (closed) / Other | Manga Stories: Overdrive / Endlessness
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