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Author Topic: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)  (Read 72893 times)

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Offline suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1260 on: April 30, 2019, 04:57:30 PM »
@walterB thanks! it was meant to be Asuna from SAO but I couldn't manage the level of detail in the clothes so gave up haha

well I'm definitely feeling a bit better. I went back to drawing all the sketch all in one go because I was starting to feel mad with all the looping round to just add a face or hair each time. Feels a bit more fluid now and seemed to be faster and more of a flow to the drawing process.

244 WIPs remaining. Looks like I might be able to manage finishing them all without going insane.



edit 224 remaining. I'm making a bunch of realizations. my attention span is about 90 seconds.

« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 01:01:52 PM by suuper-san »
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Offline Walter B

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1261 on: May 02, 2019, 05:07:09 PM »


Thats much better than m

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Offline suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1262 on: May 03, 2019, 12:24:50 PM »
@walterB you mean your concentration? haha

204 remaining

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Offline Walter B

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1263 on: May 04, 2019, 01:07:31 PM »
I guess lol  :D

Nice girl!

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Offline legomaestro

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1264 on: May 05, 2019, 09:31:28 AM »
Damn, suuper. You're almost at the finishing line hahaha! This has been quite the impressive thing to work through. I'm looking forward to your final reports when you finally hit the finish line.  I really like how detailed and lively your dress designs look. I'm the last person to ever suggest anything but I will anyways: An expression workshop would really make your work shine that much more. You have a solid understanding of how to build up something in as efficient time as possible and that'll be the way you'll win at making manga and illustrations. Now if the characters look convincingly angry, kawaii (i know this isn't an emotion but yeah) or sad then you'll be able to win all the more.

Good stuff.

Offline suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1265 on: May 05, 2019, 10:48:57 AM »
@walterB thanks :)

@lego
yeah I have a bunch of observations that hopefully will help my art in the future. When I finish I'll try and give a nice breakdown.
I've been trying to observe people in public to see what sort of outfits and fashion they wear, and trying to remember for designing clothes. I'm better than before, but still nowhere near as many details or creative ideas as I would like. I'm partly blaming the rough sketch style for that as well though.

The suggestion is most timely and always welcome. 1000 expressions is actually my next regime, for pretty much the reason you point out. My manga needs to have good expressions to be belivable and engage with the reader.

As for racing to the finish, I'm totally up for that, but I'm on holiday for the next few days camping so you've got a head start on me :P hopefully I still have a chance when I get back haha.
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Offline MahluaandMilk

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1266 on: May 07, 2019, 08:59:14 PM »
Even I feel a little called out by Ryan's post. Damn man. Good stuff and fantastic insight as always.

Suups. Gonna be real man. Your output gives me a headache. Like, my brain can't process linear time correctly when skimming through your thread every time I update. I'm pretty sure that's a compliment.

Offline suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1267 on: May 09, 2019, 11:47:43 AM »
thanks :P
I've been posting quite regularly so the pages are filling up quite quickly these days. Time has gone very quickly for the last 6 months :)

140 WIPs remaining

« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 04:27:02 PM by suuper-san »
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Offline suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1268 on: May 10, 2019, 04:50:11 PM »
had a good day
80 remaining
hopefully finish this weekend unless I get really pumped tomorrow

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Offline Walter B

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1269 on: May 11, 2019, 01:26:37 AM »
Flaming fists are good!

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Offline suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1270 on: May 13, 2019, 08:36:28 PM »
@walterB thanks!

well darn it Lego you beat me by a couple hours but I too have finished my WIP processing marathon. 1187 in total.
comments and full post of images to follow tomorrow as I'm way tired XD

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Offline suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1271 on: May 14, 2019, 04:44:12 PM »
OK here is the whole lot in order. the wider images will appear smaller as they are all crammed into the same size. I recombined the sketches to ease upload and to make them visible at normal zoom, so they are not in the same pages when when I drew them. Numbers if you have a query or want to make a comment :P
Also the total count was different to what I expected. After a bit of hunting I gave up on finding where the discrepancy was.
-SCROLL WARNING-
Spoiler

























comments/advice/rant/opinions:

  • I'm not sure but I feel that I improved a bit in my ability to force my art to a completed stage/level. Some of my earlier WIPs I sort of half finished and skipped, thinking "I'll finish it next time" but that was sort of a cop out of finishing it when it's right in front of me. Partly related to procrastination.
  • I found that overall my designs were diverse, but not always diverse on the same day. I would have days with more of a focus on clothing, or backgrounds, or expressions, or hair. I think this might be a natural limit of the mind to not be able to think of so many areas at once, as I was also pushing myself to think of the ideas quickly, on the spot. If I had spent more time on each sketch, it's possible I would have been able to create more varied characters.
  • I noticed that certain features such as hands need more detail on the original sketch as opposed to hair (which I am much more confident in), so in my sketches I started to balance out what details are needed on the early sketch. Patterns and colours are something that I eventually decided can be left to a later stage when I am spending more time on each sketch. Even when I did draw patterns, I only drew them in little boxes as a notation for next time, because it would have been a waste of time to add so much detail on an early sketch when all that detail will get redrawn again anyway. So saving time where possible was the basis of that decision.
  • I originally worked on each image from start to finish and then moved onto the next one, but after a moment of inspiration I switched to work on each stage of the sketch and then go back and work on them again. So in most cases, this was Body/Pose -> Clothes -> Face -> Details (patterns/frills) -> Backgrounds
    This helped me to focus on each aspect and to be able to be more creative, otherwise I would probably have been more likely to reuse the same ideas more frequently without realizing.
  • About the middle of the regime, I started to be a lore more confident in adding backgrounds, be it buildings, scenery, or abstract shapes and colours. This was a bit of a surprise since as you all know I very rarely add a background to a sketch, so suddenly going from nothing to being able to almost consistently come up with a background was quite a surprise.
    I figure this is because of working on the images in stages in my previous point. It really emphases the need to focus on your weaknesses separately to be able to improve. I eventually decided to not add backgrounds as it wasn't really what I wanted to do at that point in my learning, but I have a lot more confidence in creating a random scene now.
  • I found that I was constantly being limited by the original sketch, I was trying to preserve the original feel, pose, angle, clothes etc, so I was not quite as creative as I think I could have been. Two solutions to this readily come to mind - either make a better original sketch to begin with, or change the sketch to suit your more creative idea. I think I didn't want to change my old sketches too much because they were sort of representative of an era of my art, and it was sort of a homage to the original designs that I never finished when I should have. So really I hope that moving forward I will be more able to freely change my designs because they are all unfinished WIPs - that's their point - to improve them on iteration
  • I also found myself limited by my lack of knowledge of clothing. I struggled to think of styles of clothing once I had already used up the easy ones, t-shirt, jeans, trainers etc. If I had done some more fashion studies in between, That should have helped to bolster my ideas, and not just draw one generic shoe/t-shirt all the time, but be able to draw different types of boots, coats etc. Part of adding patterns helped in this regard, and as I resolve my sketches further, I will be able to make them look more unique
  • I wasn't really trying to make unique characters, although I did try and avoid making desings that were too similar. That resulted in a large amount looking quite similar. Again that's partly because that's how the original sketches were. Looking forward I want to be able to explore more genres (Lolita, Steampunk, Medieval Fantasy etc) and that should help to create more varied characters
  • I've been learning how to work with images that aren't correct, and improve proportions and correct clothing lines and so on. This is something that will really help as I work on future pieces, as I can identify problems and fix them, rather than just inking over them and keeping the problem there. So really, I've been learning to keep an eye on my proportions constantly and constantly evaluate my work
  • Related to regimes again, This has really helped me to see how large goals can be achievable through breaking them down, and working on them consistently every day. It's given me a lot of confidence in that I can achieve whatever I want with the appropriate level of effort and time. Especially, confidence that I can create a manga.
  • Once again, I have realized the importance of guidelines. Especially being able to draw a decent circle for drawing the face guidelines. Guidelines are the foundation of a drawing, and so the better and more accurate they are, the better your drawing will come out on top, and the less time you will waste later trying to fix any problems. It's best to bias your time so you spend more time on the guidelines and don't rush them. Although my sketches are unfinished and I worked on them quickly, I spent over half the overall sketch time on drawing the body.
  • When I drew the 1000 figures, I found that drawing from the head limited the range of poses that I could draw, and so when I was working from the old headshot WIPs of mine, I experienced the same thing. Although because I had to work from the head down, I found myself able to overcome that limit and think of some more interesting poses from a front facing head or a profile shot.
  • Although I recommended working on each stage of a drawing separately, it does have the negative effect of making your design elements not quite gel together, like some poses don't suit certain clothes, or face expressions not matching a background or pose. So to get a rounded out piece, you probably have to be able to think of these aspects simultaneously as you draw to make it work, or fix the aspects that don't work in a new layer. Another plan I have is to keep all my half finished WIPs and use them as inspiration only for new artworks, so I can change as much or all of it to make something better.
  • When I started this regime I predicted that it would take 65 hours, and about the same number of days, and it has taken exactly 60 hours of work, and exactly 2 months to finish. Being able to document the amount of time I have spent on my drawings has always been fun as I enjoy numbers, and it's great to see a prediction pay off like this. When I work on larger projects it will really help to be able to work out how long it will take, so I don't get too surprised at the end result. I can also reliably price commissions if I have a solid idea of how long my art will take

I think that's enough talking for now :P

my next regime is cleaning/resolving a bunch of sketches. I'm going to do 100 and see how long it takes, and probably do about 400 in total.
At the same time I'll also be working to finish my 1000 hands regime. Once that finished it's 1000 expressions
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 05:05:21 PM by suuper-san »
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Offline legomaestro

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1272 on: May 14, 2019, 07:23:18 PM »
Man, just your grand reveal of all your work thus far is so structured. 60 hours you say? Could you break that into some 'fun fact' numbers? Like how much work are we looking at in terms of minimum wage? (571 US Dollars in Europe) What do we waste our time on even more in comparision to 60 hours? Video games? Commuting?

It's totally against what my style is like but I'm feeling like your guideline/breaking down revelations are something I should just force myself to do. The thing is I'm really so adverse to them (like using a digital software other than paint or using a graphite pencil) that I'm not ready haha. I'll go for a 100 regimen them. 100 breakdowns is what I'm willing to do.

Quote
Related to regimes again, This has really helped me to see how large goals can be achievable through breaking them down, and working on them consistently every day. It's given me a lot of confidence in that I can achieve whatever I want with the appropriate level of effort and time. Especially, confidence that I can create a manga.

The frustrating thing about this very very true statement is that you can only believe it when you see it. All the gurus known and unknown tell you constantly 'it's the little steps repeated that matter' but you never quite grasp it until you just throw yourself at the statement and accept the words as they are: It really is only about repeating small focused steps obsessevily but reasonably over time. It is almost a law of the universe that you'll think: I can do something better or more fitting than this little thing over and over, but actually you learn a lot more and become more by focusing on that little thing. Just look at what happened to you, suuper. You got into backgrounds even though you were laser focused on simply finishing your WIPs. You couldn't help but learn other things. This is why I seriously would recommend someone try drawing 1,000 fingers even. At some point regardless of how exact they are they will be frustrated/inspired enough to try to draw different kinds of fingers, or have insights totally unrelated to their first simple goal.


Quote
Once again, I have realized the importance of guidelines. Especially being able to draw a decent circle for drawing the face guidelines. Guidelines are the foundation of a drawing, and so the better and more accurate they are, the better your drawing will come out on top, and the less time you will waste later trying to fix any problems. It's best to bias your time so you spend more time on the guidelines and don't rush them. Although my sketches are unfinished and I worked on them quickly, I spent over half the overall sketch time on drawing the body.

I have treated guidelines so badly because of how many artists I see that don't really need them. I've developed a respect for them though. When you have absolutely no inspiration, it's guidelines that will help you through a tough time. A simple horizon line will save your background. A simple circle will tell you where your character is standing. I'm so stubborn that I don't tend to use them, but i totally agree that guidelines are a lifeline.


I have a lot to comment on every single revelation but I'm way too lazy and disorderly to do so. I'll just give a general thought on this:

-I suspect that this regimen (like mine) was more of a 'balancing' regminen rather than a 'levelling up' regimen. To be specific I think this WIP catch up regimen was more of you clearing up your mental space and testing your general speed/effeciency stats and skills rather than learning something new or something very problematic in your art journey. BECAUSE of this regimen I think that you have recieved vital knowledge that will let you even study 1,000 types of flowers comfortably without worrying about if it's relevant to your actual projects. I think this is a huuuuge sucess basically, even though it's not possible to think of it as such, I really do think this was the most important (kind of ) regimen of them all

- I know you're not satisfied with your clothing knowledge and character variety, but I've got to tell you it's FINE to draw hyperbeautiful characters as your sort of style. In fact, variety is not quite the problem to look at. The real problem to look at is: What do you want to draw and what do you like to draw? I'll make a post about this but I do believe that every artist should be shameless about their style at a certain point and accept that they like to draw a certain thing in a certain way. Nobody ever finishes learning, but at a point you should finish doubting yourself and just do your project.

- I challenge you to expand on 0014 chan. (0699 is my fav btw but seemed like too much detail for a random challenge)



Offline suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1273 on: May 15, 2019, 07:02:46 AM »
Quote
Could you break that into some 'fun fact' numbers?
Quote
What do we waste our time on even more in comparision to 60 hours? Video games? Commuting?
I have a productivity app that tells me that in the last two months I have used Chrome for a total of 6.5 days, but GIMP for only 3.5 - so I could have finished the regime in 3 weeks if I didn't waste time browsing Youtube and so on. That always hits me hard. Plus I'm on the computer way too much. It would be great to do a bit more paper drawings out in the sunshine while it's summer or something.
Incidentally while drawing, my mouse moved 78 million pixels during the regime at an average of 257px/s
I averaged almost exactly 3 minutes for each drawing but individually ranged from 2-8ish. The longer I spent usually resulted in a better drawing.

Quote
It's totally against what my style is like but I'm feeling like your guideline/breaking down revelations are something I should just force myself to do. The thing is I'm really so adverse to them
I get you on that. There's plenty of stuff I do or don't do, simply because I do or don't want to. Nothing to do with what's best for my art or anything. But I will say it's good to try out different stuff just for a little bit. 100 sounds about right for bulkers like ourselves XD

Quote
You couldn't help but learn other things.
SO true. I found because of the repetitivity my mind was wandering around thinking about different aspects and what I could do to get better or whatnot.

Quote
1,000 fingers even
That's actually a good idea to be honest. The hand is a beast of details.

The only reason"good" artists don't need guidelines as much is because they can instinctively imagine them as they draw. I occasionally try this, but I haven't recently and I want to. It's amazing how better you get just for visualizing the thing you are trying to draw first before draiwng it. but the effort is heavy.

Quote
I suspect that this regimen (like mine) was more of a 'balancing' regminen rather than a 'levelling up' regimen.
Yes, That's totally true. The things I learnt were not so much art related but more generic skill related, as well as working on procrastination and other similar mental "issues" that prevent me from giving 100% attention and focus. So I really levelled up myself, not my art.

Quote
BECAUSE of this regimen I think that you have recieved vital knowledge that will let you even study 1,000 types of flowers comfortably without worrying about if it's relevant to your actual projects. I think this is a huuuuge sucess basically, even though it's not possible to think of it as such, I really do think this was the most important (kind of ) regimen of them all
I think this is true, but I can't really put it into words. It really is just a feeling of confidence and knowing how to break a problem down into bitesize easy chunks.

Quote
What do you want to draw and what do you like to draw?
I got asked this a couple pages back on this thread and I said a lot, but my answer is probably part of the problem. I don't have a definitive style, or a style that I'm even aiming at. Or a long term goal that's LONG term. Everything in my goal list is just leveling up, even any mangas I have planned are just practices. As you say, clearing the mental baggage helps me to see clearer my next steps. Hopefully I'll pick a path some time soon, even if it's not my final path. really a single goal would help me to specialise the most.

I expect the early sketches will get the most attention in my next streak, so hopefully #14 will get done as well. really I'm hoping to finish them all to a decent standard, but that'll take some time methinks haha
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Offline suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1274 on: May 16, 2019, 06:34:28 PM »
2/100 resolved sketches. takes an average 9 minutes a piece so far. I think the quality could probably be dropped a little, these feel more like nearly finished linearts. i dont want to miss-spend my time, but i dont want to make inking difficult by not putting enough details in. time will tell i guess.
also i feel i need to do more fabric studies now, i dont know at all how folds work :P

click to enlarge

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