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Author Topic: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)  (Read 97845 times)

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Offline legomaestro

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1455 on: January 22, 2020, 05:36:01 AM »
Yeah I really liked the train one too, but that last piece looks super polished for sure. Real solid lineart (though it may need a little bit of tone for better contrast? Or colour. Whichever works for you )

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1456 on: January 22, 2020, 09:26:58 AM »
Well the last one is yet to be fully inked so it still has some sketchy elements. It's a maximum level piece so it will not only get colour, but good colour.
Once I got the hang of my standard WIP workflows, I found areas which could be improved to produce a higher level piece more consistently (basically more iterations), and once I have trialed it out, I will most likely apply some or all of it to all my WIPs to increase the quality across the board.
I'm finally working on how to work out a style by combining elements of artists styles that I like. I do want multiple styles so I have to be very specific on which style it is that I am developing.

I feel more like a software developer than an artist most of the time to be honest. The way I'm attacking the problems is so unartistic.

And I am so utterly gutted - I found on DA an artist who was basically the exact style I wanted. And I thought I clicked on watch, but apparently not. I went though my entire internet history and couldnt find it. And I'm almost thinking I imagined it. So devastated. And I didn't really look closely at the art so I don't even remember it properly.

I trimmed my WIPs down to 3.6k from 4k
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 08:18:31 AM by suuper-san »
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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1457 on: January 23, 2020, 07:26:34 AM »
Well now I hate myself because I traced it.
At least I know where I don't suck.
I think the original was done with vectors though because the consistency is super high and the curves dont feel natural to draw. Could be my noobiness.

Original artist: https://www.deviantart.com/uniicake



I think I'm almost embarrassed to produce my own art looking like this to be honest. It's not quite the style I want, although I wouldn't mind, but I don't know, I just feel stupid drawing it. Like "is this really what I spent 10 years learning how to draw for?" sort of feeling.
I really like it but I still have that feeling :/
Maybe that's the same feeling that's limiting my art.

Edit:
my rage seems to be fuel.
I coloured my daily sketch.
I made the lineart softer with the blurry extra layer.

left:original shade render and soft lineart
right: lineart only and no soft blur
different combinations of elements leads to quite a few different styles at almost the push of a button.

« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 08:58:47 AM by suuper-san »
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Offline Lord Kesashi

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1458 on: January 23, 2020, 02:56:03 PM »
Well tracing isn't actually bad in terms of art. Before cameras were invented, it was common for artists to use the camera obscura technique to project an image onto a wall and then trace it. It would make photorealistic painting much easier. It's actually only very recently that the art world has started to care more about process than results. The entire concept was started by a movement in the 1900s.

I think it's pretty insane how smooth those lines are without being done in a vector program. I think there are some qualities in Uniicake's artsyle that might benefit you to emulate.

At this point you may be reaching a crossroads where your skill with realism is contradicting your stylistic sensibilities. Like with the latest piece, if you took the outlines out that would be some extremely realistic clothing. I think you should consider trying more traditional anime cel shading and larger outlines similar to how Uniicake uses her large outlines to make the characters more cartoony.

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1459 on: January 23, 2020, 04:08:27 PM »
I meant it's more the annoyance that it's my composition that's the issue and my line control is somewhat decent.

You mean my lines are smooth or Uniicake's lines are smooth? lol

Digital certainly has options such as paths, and smooth stroke options that allow the artist to create very smooth lines. I occasionally use the smooth stroke feature but I prefer to actually have the coordination to draw it outright. I always have the target of beging able to draw traditionally, so I don't want to rely too heavily on digital only features, although I realise that's slightly foolish as they are completely different mediums.

Quote
your skill with realism is contradicting your stylistic sensibilities
once again you've hit the nail on the head, Kesashi. I have totally been noticing contradictions and it's been an annoyance to try and resolve them because to some extent it means drawing less realistically again, when I'm also trying to learn to draw more realistically as well for portraits etc.
I leaned away from cel-shading simply because I wanted to learn how to shade more realiscally, so I dont really mind the style itself. But I must admit I hadn't thought about whether a certain shading style is suited to my style or not.

But out of the 10 artists whose styles I am merging into my own first proper style, this is one of them. So I will totally do more studies.



anyways,
I did this Mach 1 coloured sketch page. I averaged 7 minutes per piece and they came out pretty awesome all things considered. The sketches themselves weren't great as they are the lowest quality sketches in my "to colour sketches" folder. I always work on the worse ones first to build up skill and then the higher quality pieces get a more experienced finish. also I did a slightly different hair render which is 20% faster or something :P

I have 2 levels of coloured sketch, a super-fast-slap-the-colour-on level, which is what I just did, and also a slightly more serious version that uses my cleaned sketches instead of my finished sketches.

also for the first time I softened the linearts with the blur because I always found them to be jarring against the colour, maybe because they are so bold.



my favourite ones larger:
Spoiler




they're shoddy I know, but they're not meant to be anything more than that either. I suppose it's like a trial run at a colour scheme to see what it looks like without having to put a lot of time into it.
Once the sketches look half decent then these coloured pieces will look better as well.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 04:16:04 PM by suuper-san »
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Offline legomaestro

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1460 on: January 24, 2020, 09:57:51 AM »
HOLY CHEESE HOW. Dude you're a power house hahahaha! Okay that does it i'm setting up a workflow like this as a test run. Or wait, I'll see how it works out on my comics. This means theoretically the more passes you make the more you can simultaneously finish coloured pieces. Niiice!

Witch gal is defo my favourite.

Quote
Well now I hate myself because I traced it.
At least I know where I don't suck.
I think the original was done with vectors though because the consistency is super high and the curves dont feel natural to draw. Could be my noobiness.

Haha welcome to the club. It's a knee jerk reaction when one traces.

But yes, you learn a surprising alot about your mechanical skills. People use the curve tool quite a bit (its' how that one mspaint drawing turned out good. The portrait of the anime girl with the blue hair I made? some time back?

And yes, we are all beginners in one way or the other. You're on a nice path though.


Quote
I think I'm almost embarrassed to produce my own art looking like this to be honest. It's not quite the style I want, although I wouldn't mind, but I don't know, I just feel stupid drawing it. Like "is this really what I spent 10 years learning how to draw for?" sort of feeling.
I really like it but I still have that feeling :/
Maybe that's the same feeling that's limiting my art.

Hahahaha I can totally relate to that feeling. I feel the same when I succesfully make something look really, really anime. I get a strange rejection reaction, even though aesthetically I love seeing the art when I really really go for a super chibi/anime look I feel off for some reason haha.

But having this feeling is infinitely better than wondering. Honestly tracing things lets' you know much more intimately how you want to draw or not. From there you can decide what you want to be like.


Quote
Edit:
my rage seems to be fuel.
I coloured my daily sketch.
I made the lineart softer with the blurry extra layer.





Man, be raged out more haha! (In healthy doses, of course.) Damn the line art and shading itself was already good but you made it a coloured piece! I love them both! I'm not even sure which I'd choose, to be honest.

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1461 on: January 24, 2020, 02:54:03 PM »
@lego well I did pretty much exactly what I did in my youtube video, but ramped up the pace a little. I used a soft brush so I didn't have to do any smudging, which probably saved the most time.

Witch gal is Megumin from Konosuba as always :P
so it's not my character but the composition is my own though.

Quote
This means theoretically the more passes you make the more you can simultaneously finish coloured pieces. Niiice!
not quite sure what you meant there :/
each pass is to do a specific thing, like shade, highlights, eyes etc.

But yes please try it for yourself, it's great fun seeing the pieces come to life!

I will probably remember the blue haired girl if I see her again :P

And yeah totally. I can totally see myself having a "secret" art style which I draw all my cute rainbow chibis, and my "public" art style which is like my serious drawing request level :P
I dont mind drawing it but I wouldn't want to show anyone, at least not people that I know face to face :P
man living a double life is hard XD

And thanks! coloring each of my daily sketches has been on the agenda since the beginning. So I'm glad I got one done :P
And I didn't know which version I preferred either, which is partly why I posted both :P

well for a "bad week", I've still been quite productive, which is partly thanks to the daily sketch, as well as a nice good habit that I've built up the last 2 months.

I've got a few more projects for different styles of artworks and idea generation, so stay tuned as always!
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 03:33:24 AM by suuper-san »
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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1462 on: January 25, 2020, 03:58:44 PM »
I've come back after ages and Suuper the powerhouse is still going at it, I don't think you were doing 3D, or at least I don't remember - an invaluable skill that will get you hired in industry even without freelance.

Cute chibi's as your secret style? figured, lol! Hey you know there's probably a demand for that you just gotta attack the niche of chibi people with money are into, otherwise yeah you're more likely to make money from 'serious requests' xD

Impressive, Suuper. You've certainly been vigilant in your presence here in the community also, not just in your studies. Power to you buddy
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Offline Ryan

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1463 on: January 25, 2020, 07:43:35 PM »
Quote
Digital certainly has options such as paths, and smooth stroke options that allow the artist to create very smooth lines. I occasionally use the smooth stroke feature but I prefer to actually have the coordination to draw it outright. I always have the target of beging able to draw traditionally, so I don't want to rely too heavily on digital only features, although I realise that's slightly foolish as they are completely different mediums.

That person's linework in that image is very consistent because:

  • they used a tool to mirror the base drawing along a line of symmetry
  • the pen they are using has little to no pressure sensitivity, so it is more consistent
  • the pen has stabilizer on it
  • it's easier to draw smooth lines when you're not restricted to drawing a certain line path, such as when tracing. When she was drawing the lines, she could could draw the lines smoothly and confidently because she had more margin of error for the accuracy of her lines.
  • rotating the canvas (and possibly flipping it horizontally), in order to have a better angle on the line they are drawing

I know I've already brought this up before, but still. High quality digital line-art does require good physical hand control, yes. But there is a superhuman level of smoothness to certain types of line-art, which is only possible due to stabilizers and such. If you want to make that type of line-art, leveraging the tools available to you is virtually required if you don't want to spend a century on every single piece. If you are abhorrently against doing so, then learn to make work that uses imperfect line quality and take inspiration from other works that have imperfect line quality.

That level of smooth line in character art is something that cannot be replicated traditionally, either. Smoothness of line in traditional art is an illusion that comes from reproducing or viewing the work at reduced scale. People understand this and do not expect to see digital levels of smoothness in traditional art when seeing it at true scale.

Traditional lines will also naturally be drawn smoother than unstabilized digitally drawn lines. The way traditional pen nibs contact paper, and how ink flows, a lot of wobbling is neutralized. In contrast, digital pen nibs have an artificial contact with a glossy surface, so wobbling is maximized. That's why nearly all custom pen brushes placed on the Clip Studio community hub have at least some stabilizer by default.

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1464 on: January 26, 2020, 01:37:35 AM »
@Basic thanks! yeah I'm powering through things as always. I'm not a very efficient learner so it's the next best thing :P
it would be great to find a niche category that I liked and that would also sell nicely, but otherwise yeah "normal" it is XD

@Ryan
ahhh yes I did notice the symmetry. I'm not a big fan of it tbh, I don't know why. maybe it feels like cheating, somehow. I like trying to draw it symmetrically without help I think haha
Ahhh I didn't think of having a constant thickness brush! I'm so used to my pressure sensitive one. That would have certainly make things easier as I was basically trying to control my pressure the whole time. I'll watch out for that next time.
Nice use of "superhuman" to describe it. That makes me feel a lot more acceptant of using stabilizer to overcome my human limits!!!! Yes I can see it would certainly speed things up. Maybe I'll try and trace it again but with the different brush settings and see if that makes a difference!!

I'm making more use of flip these days - I'm getting used to it as a tool and not a cheat, but idk I just feel annoyed that I can't draw things how I want without flipping it. But I know you have to use tools to get certain results - like a ruler for straight lines. But it's difficult for me to see what's necessary to use a tool and what's optional and not needed if I have enough skill. I don't want to use a tool if my skill alone , when high enough, can make it obsolete.

Ahhh that explains the pen wobble on digital vs traditional. I always figured it might have been the smoothness but I couldnt figure why.

Thanks for the tips and "tricks". I'll try and use them where I can.
Thanks for always trying to convert me to doing things properly XD

EDIT:
I'm sort of digging myself into a hole at the moment.
I'm confident my art skills are better than what are showing but I've got such a huge load of half-bad WIPs that I just can't fix up. I've also got a nice bunch of half-good sketches I've been saving up.
My problem is that I'm almost fed up with the old WIPs now. I've learnt a huge amount about art and workflow etc by trying to deal with them but I think I'm shooting myself in the foot if I carry on working with the worser ones. I mean that's obvious but I think It's a proper nuisance now. Some are over 2 years old now and that's a serious drop in quality from where I am now. I just can't process them all fast enough. I said a few years ago that this time would come when I wouldn't be able to deal with them, and here it is....

I'm working on a solution that doesn't throw all the sketches in the bin, so to speak. One alternative is to push a lot of sketches back a level, to allow them to all get fixed up. That goes against the grain as I can see the same thing happening a year from now. Another idea is to remove just the worst ones. I've done that twice now and I'm starting to archive sketches that I kinda wanted to see finished. So that's depressing. Another idea is to adjust my WIP flow to allow for extra fixing, but then it will take even longer to finish them and get onto new sketches, but at least they will look good. Another idea is to temporarily archive almost all the sketches, and worry about it later (that's pretty much what I did for 8 years anyway)
Then I can trickle them back in and it might not be so bad, maybe? But then the huge "finish ALL the WIPs!!" project won't get done for years and that's also depressing.

Hence I'm stuck.

Another idea is to increase the amount of time drawing, by being more efficient and making more sacrifices of other stuff and internetting wayy less.

I sort of didn't want to get good until I had got the old WIPs out of the way, you know? I don't want to move forward to make good art with the old stuff in the background still. so it's become a more complicated sort of baggage :/

I think the increase time drawing idea is the most suited to me.

That being the case, I'm going major silent on MR, for maybe 2 months or until my WIPs get low enough to start my normal projects again. I'll pretty much only do WIPs, with minimal studies, because although that sort of helps in the long run, I need to get these out of the way for peace of mind now.
But I'll post my daily sketch ofc with any small updates.
See you around.
Talking out loud really helps.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 05:22:40 PM by suuper-san »
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Offline Ryan

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1465 on: January 26, 2020, 08:15:16 PM »
I know you said you're taking a break, but I'll leave a message in case you come back to check your thread.

It's the fate of an artist to have a lot of unfinished work and ideas hanging around. The same goes for writers. Not every idea can be processed into a finished state. The better you become as a creator, the longer it takes to process a work into a state that is finished to your own standards. There's not enough time for it all.

So it's something that is accepted. Outside of working on their main work, it's common for artists to relax and sketch freely ideas with no intention of finishing them. It takes the edge off. If you had the intention to finish everything you started, you won't be able to loosen up because you'd think, "Well, since I plan on putting the time to finish this, I better come up with a good image design or idea."

I urge you to remember why you decided to start this finish all the WIPS project.

In May of 2019, this is what you said:

Quote
my next regime is cleaning/resolving a bunch of sketches. I'm going to do 100 and see how long it takes, and probably do about 400 in total.

And here you are, far past that amount.

Isn't your desire to have a lot of resolved sketches? To not allow yourself to put half-assed attempts at your art?

Then, why not set a goal for how many resolved sketches you want to do per month, and resolve the sketches you feel like resolving. And if you run out of sketches you want to resolve, then make new sketches and resolve those.

What you're essentially doing here is trying to manage your artistic efforts. Don't get misconceptions from your numbers. Care about the numbers that matter; that is, how many resolved sketches you create, not how many unfinished sketches are left unfinished.

Caring about numbers that don't matter is what leads businesses to their downfall.

Sketches don't matter in the equation here. Sketches are an overabundant surplus! They are easy to make in bulk. If you need more sketches to resolve, you can easily take a day to do so. The bottleneck is the time it takes to finish work!

Quote
a bottleneck is one process in a chain of processes, such that its limited capacity reduces the capacity of the whole chain

Quote
the result of having a bottleneck are stalls in production, supply overstock, pressure from customers and low employee morale

You have an overstock of sketches, but it doesn't matter in any way at all. Sketches are sheets of paper, and bytes of data. You can fit thousands upon thousands onto a hard drive. Having many unfinished sketches causes no harm. What causes harm is not putting effort into your artwork and giving up when things get difficult. A harm that you are not guilty of.

If you need permission to make the good art you want to make, then I'm giving it to you now.

Break free from the guilt of your self-imposed chains. Make the art you want to make. If you have old art you want to re-do, re-do it. If you have sketches you don't want to resolve, then don't resolve them. Forget about the pile of corpses that will build up in your wake. They're just a bunch of corpses anyway.

Start being selfish. It's by being selfish that you will find your style and place as an artist. First and foremost, artists make the art they like and want to make; what other people would like to see is secondary. Selfishness is the root of it all.





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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1466 on: January 28, 2020, 02:42:19 PM »
Felt bad not replying since you wrote so much.
I do check MR on my phone now, while travelling, so it's not wasting time. But I'll barely reply.
I'll also try and be brief.

I am indeed dropping sketches that I don't want to finish (~10% at the moment but I want to drop more), but one problem is the range of sketches that I do want to finish is huge, from not so great to awesome.
It's just a lot of my sketches are nostalgic and I never finished any of my sketches from when I first started drawing, so I wanted to finish them "for old times sake". So it's an emotional attachment to the old sketches, and that's why I'm insistent on finishing at least a lot of them.
I am shifting into my newer stuff, and I certainly don't plan on finishing ALL the WIPs, I was sort of exaggerating there. I dont want to have old sketches that I still want to finish, that's the current goal, to finish the old ones, from yesteryear. I will probably have a 6 monthish rollover period once I catch up, I think.

Yes I can indeed produce a lot of sketches if I want, and I am a lot better at making interesting ones, so that's not the issue. Ironically knowing that my sketches will become WIPs is not a worry for me as in "I have to finish this so I'll put the effort in", rather the opposite,"I'll leave the fixing up to my future self", and I can draw freely.

Quote
Break free from the guilt of your self-imposed chains. Make the art you want to make. If you have old art you want to re-do, re-do it. If you have sketches you don't want to resolve, then don't resolve them. Forget about the pile of corpses that will build up in your wake. They're just a bunch of corpses anyway.
I am indeed following this. I'm now frequently (for now) resorting my WIPs and trimming out ones that I don't want to finish, getting tighter and tighter on the level that's accepted, as I get used to the fact that I can't finish everything (I always knew this but now I have to deal with accepting it).

I also have concurrent art pages that are me working on my new style, so it's not all old catching up. But I'm still getting used to my new shift into high(er) gear.

As soon as I catch up with my old WIPs, I'm working on improving the flow of my artworks to recycle scrappy sketches into better ones, and catching them sooner so I don't waste time cleaning up a sketch that I eventually won't like. Also on creating original characters and proper scenes. There will (hopefully!!!) be a massive jump in quality as I switch. hopefully. So a better system than the current WIP processing is in order.

Thanks for the tips and advice :)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 04:18:13 AM by suuper-san »
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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1467 on: January 29, 2020, 03:48:18 PM »
Sorry for butting in here guys

Suuper I'm interested - I know you have a nostalgic obligation to finish off WIPs, so I'll ask you this:
 A retrospective journey (even if it's theraputic), is this your preferred road, over a streamlined study approach that could potentially reap benefits faster?

I'm not saying don't finish off old stuff, but perhaps by focussing on your improvement studies, you could just do new versions of your old works and then do a "then/now" comparison. That way you could see your level AND get in touch with your past. (I feel not working off your old work also prevents your new skills from being affected by the 'rocky foundation' set by an old WIP)

Idk what do ya think
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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1468 on: January 30, 2020, 06:16:11 AM »
Hmm a preferred road.......can't really choose between the two. I've sort of gone 50/50 a lot of the way with my decisions.
I think each artist has their own problems they have to deal with, which will be different, like, because of their personality and life experience, and my problems were:
-not wanting to work on an image any more because I think I will ruin it.
^conversely, not being able to finish a drawing because it's already 'ruined'.
-not having a creative enough image.
-not drawing frequently enough.
-not knowing how to improve/finish a drawing from the original idea (accuracy/design)
-not having an actual method to produce finished illustrations
-not knowing how to come up with ideas.
-not wanting to work with images that are not my best (that is, not being able to meet too high expectations based on my current skill level)
-avoiding certain tools/methods/ideas because they felt like "cheating"
-not being happy with work that wasn't my absolute best.
-procrastinating and not working on certain levels of art
Rather than my actual artistic skill, I have focused on these core attitude/workflow issues first, and I am glad to say, have mostly solved all of them so they are not an issue at all now. So not all an artist's skills are related to art, is my theory, especially when it comes to my own personality. Gaining art skill/theory etc has never been an issue for me because I am confident that I can gain knowledge (we'll see haha), but it's my attitude and mindset that were the biggest issues for me.

Regarding finishing off old drawings, I have actually been fixing issues and improving them, so it's sort of a redraw when you look at it like that, but they were just never finished to begin with. I call it nostalgia but it's a little different. It's a long story but "I'm still a noob" is the shortest way to explain it :P
Here's a gif I made a while back to show how I've been processing them. You can see most are not finished but I completely change them to my new style and fix the errors.
Spoiler

I have never been too interested in getting skilled as absolutely fast as possible, I'm just enjoying finding my own way. I enjoy challenges and puzzles so it's a fun journey for me :P And I think some of the things I have learned I might never have learned if I took a more "normal" route. My goals are so supremely huge that I need a bulletproof method to deal with them.

2020 paper sketch dump so far. Been drawing traditionally in the evenings as a wind down, away from the screens.
Especially the last page I like.

Spoiler


Middle three - same girl, different proportion sets.










"Calibration" page



« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 08:11:31 AM by suuper-san »
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Online suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1469 on: January 30, 2020, 02:28:31 PM »
Double post but I had to show someone this amazing thing I did, spent about an hour on it.
Dynamic Gantt chart for my art projects. Hugeish Excel formulas in the coloured bar regions and hidden columns galore.
When you change the dates for the projects the bars update. the red bar under 2020 shows the current week I am in.
Overdue projects are red, completed late projects are dark grey, project timespan is blue if past, light grey if future. green if finished early.
Hopefully this helps to keep a track of what I'm actually doing by better visualizing progress and plans.



Now I can get back to actually doing the projects....
Art: Manga / Fanart / Requests (closed) / Other | Manga Stories: Overdrive / Endlessness
Other: Tutorials / Craft | Feedback & Critique Welcome!!