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Author Topic: Writer Discussion Table  (Read 109544 times)

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Offline Lumaria

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Re: Writer Discussion Table
« Reply #795 on: April 19, 2014, 01:38:18 AM »
I have definitely heard of that theory, but i have not read too much into it. I feared if i did, things would become too formulaic that i start to depress myself in how predictable i become.
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Offline Nairbons

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Re: Writer Discussion Table
« Reply #796 on: April 19, 2014, 02:47:15 AM »
I'm going to kinda-sorta agree with Lorenx, here. I also tend to agree with Neil Gaiman (The following is taken from the Wikipedia page on 'Hero With a Thousand Faces'):

Author Neil Gaiman, whose work is frequently seen as exemplifying the monomyth structure, says that he started The Hero with a Thousand Faces but refused to finish it: "I think I got about half way through The Hero with a Thousand Faces and found myself thinking if this is true—I don't want to know. I really would rather not know this stuff. I’d rather do it because it's true and because I accidentally wind up creating something that falls into this pattern than be told what the pattern is."



See, I OWN 'Hero With a Thousand Faces." It's good stuff, though the actual writing is all over the place. There isn't anything specific that says "This is a story, and nothing else works." He mostly makes points in the broadest  sense because the theory itself is pretty vague. He's not telling you how to build a house, he's mostly pointing out that houses tend to have a roof and some form of wall.

Now, the actual graphic that he used to describe his "Hero's Journey" is a fantastic tool for getting the feeling of storytelling down. It's good to keep in mind when you get an idea for a comic, that you're not just imagining powers and cool weapons for your characters. All that stuff is just window-dressing for the story that you OUGHT to be telling.

If you want to venture further down the rabbit hole of literature and the collective unconscious though, take a gander into the works of Carl G. Jung. See, Joe Campbell looked at Jung's theories about psychology and applied them to a narrative. If Campbell teaches you the amazing basics of STORY, Jung will do the same for CHARACTERS.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 02:54:30 AM by nairbons »

Offline Artyom

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Re: Writer Discussion Table
« Reply #797 on: April 19, 2014, 03:07:17 AM »
True. I didn't follow the theory every step of the way but it was a great template to help me direct character development and the order of the scenes for the story. The Hero's Journey diagram should be used to help inspiration and tear the block down and give way to creativity and brain storming. I didn't get to read the whole book but there are many sources as you said.

Offline Lumaria

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Re: Writer Discussion Table
« Reply #798 on: April 19, 2014, 03:43:49 AM »
what i noticed in japanese seinen and in josei that they tend to have more odd and very distinct romance in them. well seinen has more distinct ones, but josei usually goes for the extreme. a bit of an age gap, which i dont mind. but there are some romances that really make things weird for me.

Particularly in Honey and Clover, because i was introduced to it as a "romance" story....i felt really odd about Hagu (the midgit girl, who has issues with people)....she was so unrealistic, and those who fell in love with her also seemed unrealistic. Although i laughed in most cases, Hagu being in the story just felt really extreme for me.

i who enjoy josei couldn't really understand this one, at least in the romance department, couldn't understand what kind of character she was and she usually took a back seat in the story (at least in volume 1 of the manga). I gave up on the first volume though, so i really didn't give it a big chance, but....at the same time i didn't feel connected with it at all.


Does anyone else feel this way (at least when it comes to honey and clover)?
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Offline KagePen

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Re: Writer Discussion Table
« Reply #799 on: April 19, 2014, 07:15:03 AM »
Hagu did feel a bit misplaced in Honey and Clover, she was funny and cute but I didn't really like her and couldn't understand why the other characters liked her. Maybe it is more distinct later on in the story so I guess I should read more.

Offline Lumaria

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Re: Writer Discussion Table
« Reply #800 on: April 19, 2014, 07:20:06 AM »
i asked around if that was ever going to be answered, and i dont know...i'm hearing rumors that Hagu is meant to be read as if she really is some 8 year old girl falling in love with older men....and i personally don't like that idea.

Its the oddest Josei i ever read and i will dare say that this one particularly stretches the term "josei".
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Offline legomaestro

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Re: Writer Discussion Table
« Reply #801 on: April 19, 2014, 07:36:27 AM »
"I think I got about half way through The Hero with a Thousand Faces and found myself thinking if this is true—I don't want to know. I really would rather not know this stuff. I’d rather do it because it's true and because I accidentally wind up creating something that falls into this pattern than be told what the pattern is."

This. That is all

Offline KagePen

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Re: Writer Discussion Table
« Reply #802 on: April 19, 2014, 10:03:10 AM »
i asked around if that was ever going to be answered, and i dont know...i'm hearing rumors that Hagu is meant to be read as if she really is some 8 year old girl falling in love with older men....and i personally don't like that idea.

Its the oddest Josei i ever read and i will dare say that this one particularly stretches the term "josei".


It sure is odd but it's one of the only josei to get an anime, I guess it's 'oddness' is what made people like it. I dunno. I was more into the warmth the story had rather than the main romance.

Offline Lumaria

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Re: Writer Discussion Table
« Reply #803 on: April 19, 2014, 10:09:20 AM »
thats one of the common complaints i had about it. it felt too shojo than josei. i think it was just mislabeled. Nothing really showed signs of it being "josei" where they are usually darker more mature themes revolving relationship.

shojo does a good job with the "warmth" department. but even at volume 1, it was trying to be something other than "warmth" way too fast. idk......i have a very hard time accepting honey and clover as something thats "josei". it looks like a sick shojo fantasy. but anyways........

ever had a hard time accepting something was related to that specific demographic?
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Offline KagePen

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Re: Writer Discussion Table
« Reply #804 on: April 19, 2014, 10:23:44 AM »
I don't think I've read enough josei to deduce whether something belongs or not, but I think Honey and Clover being different from most Josei is what made it more popular mayber? Think about it, if something is different from it's demographic it can pull in readers that are not really into the chosen demographic because the story is different. For example, I really don't like Shojo manga that stay too close to their general characteristics, but I love reading the Shojo manga that are dynamic and unique to their demographic. So basically I think Honey and Clover wasn't really liked by fans of Josei but rather fans of other demographics because it was unique to Josei.

Offline Lumaria

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Re: Writer Discussion Table
« Reply #805 on: April 19, 2014, 10:36:55 AM »
the problem is that i wanted to read a josei because i enjoy it. and this one was nothing close to josei. perhaps the only josei thing about it was how obscene it was...but then again....Cardcaptor Sakura had some strong ideas like that too, such as yaoi, lesbian cousin, a young girl in love with a guy twice her age.....it was still shojo where it mattered and it captured most of the other things that weren't shojo...but.....Honey and clover isn't a josei manga that captures other demographics. its more of something else entirely with a josei stamp on it.
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Offline KagePen

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Re: Writer Discussion Table
« Reply #806 on: April 19, 2014, 10:48:45 AM »
I guess it being something different and 'new' is what got it so many fans, though it's a matter of taste in terms of 'why?'.

Offline Lumaria

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Re: Writer Discussion Table
« Reply #807 on: April 19, 2014, 10:51:38 AM »
i'm not so sure what you're asking me. but i dont think the problem was that it was too different from the original, its that its not the original at all, no connection to it.
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Offline legomaestro

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Re: Writer Discussion Table
« Reply #808 on: April 19, 2014, 03:59:20 PM »
I lost the latest adventure time episode i was on, so i was reading the wikipedia episode listing to find it... and then found this
Spoiler
Lemonhope grows unhappy with Princess Bubblegum's constant reminders of his responsibility to help the lemon people. He sets out on his own adventure to be his own person, but soon gets stranded in a desert, nearly succumbing to death.

Lemonhope is saved by and teams up with monster hunter Phlannel Boxingday (voiced by Creed Bratton), but finds that he is unable to hide from his past. He resolves to defeat Lemongrab once and for all, and, using his lyre, plays a song so pleasing that Lemongrab explodes. Princess Bubblegum is able to reconstituted Lemongrab into one being by merging the two brothers' left over parts.

How does this guy think of his stories? They're just so wacky.

Offline Lumaria

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Re: Writer Discussion Table
« Reply #809 on: April 19, 2014, 04:03:14 PM »
i have  no iea...but just by watching the recent chapters, i can already tell that they intentionally leave things open so that they can return to them again which is a shame. i prefer to be left open and never closed.

For example: Princess bubble gum giving up her rock t shirt and Maja the witch is cooking up something "big". we're going to see a continuation of that eventually.
Stop playing victim....you know what you did.