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Author Topic: Miscellaneous Arts and Sketchbook  (Read 41575 times)

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Offline suupertramp

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Re: Miscellaneous Arts and Sketchbook
« Reply #570 on: August 25, 2018, 10:26:18 AM »
#260-262, #266, very awesome,seriously good render on them as well. I think when shaded well they just look more realistic as well

Offline eldritchmaestro

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Re: Miscellaneous Arts and Sketchbook
« Reply #571 on: September 28, 2018, 08:56:35 PM »
Yeah I can see that. Cheers suuper!

Okay then. Was away from work station for quite a bit, had lazy days but also good ones. All in all I've managed to draw 400 hands. I lost my freaking phone along the way so I couldn't reference my right hand as intended later down the line, so I just winged it. Went through a plane magazine for some references at one point, and now trying out drawing on a cheap book to spare me the pain of taking care of so many papers.

It's been draining, especially seeing as I still have 300 more to do. I'm still looking forward to finally hitting 1,000 though, and I'm definitely encouraged by how much I managed to do in a month. As always, lotso scrolling.

Attempting hands without reference has both a promising and discouraging result: I feel comfortable drawing them, knowing in general how the hand should look, but for any complex rotations I'm as lost as ever.

More than anything, I think I've just come to appreciate how much proportion makes or breaks the drawing of any image. I hope that after doing this I can at least come away with a more intimate knowledge of the length-width relationships of a hand, and a general greater ability to pay attention to such relations in other drawings. Man I want to get to comics asap.
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Haven't drawn from photos in a minute. Was fun.
Spoiler






Offline Coryn

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Re: Miscellaneous Arts and Sketchbook
« Reply #572 on: September 29, 2018, 08:26:29 AM »
Great work Lego! Really proud of you for keeping to your guns on this!

God though, there comes a point where you want to turn back, but you know the fastest way out is through  :ohmy:

Will review stories upon request. My latest arc: http://goo.gl/KYgsfF

Offline suupertramp

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Re: Miscellaneous Arts and Sketchbook
« Reply #573 on: September 29, 2018, 10:53:30 AM »
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there comes a point where you want to turn back, but you know the fastest way out is through
@coryn that's brilliantly awesome advice :P

@lego duuuuuude haaaaaaands!!!!!!
great work in quantity and quality. You always give me a run for my money when it comes to scroll spamming :P really encouraging to see your hard work and efforts, and I'm sure you will reap great rewards.

however I would like to make a suggestion (one that I need to follow as well!) - that you try and draw your studies with guidelines, trying to break down what you see into basic shapes or construction lines, because you don't want to memorize individual images of hands, you want to memorize form so you can reconstruct it later and draw from new angles etc. If you cant redraw a hand (or anything else) you have copied before, then the act of copying it has limited value in my opinion. I keep forgetting to do this in my own studies, but in the instances when I have seriously thought "what guidelines make up this object/hand/foot", I have been rewarded with a step towards understanding the object. same with other artists work, I try and get inside their head and say "what guidelines did they use", or "why did they draw something this way instead of another way". it does take more time than just plain copying it, but I am sure it is worth it, and it certainly has been so far for me.
(Conversely you can think "why did I draw this wrong" on your own drawings to break down your mistakes and your own thinking patterns)

I love dem tiny hands tho :P
Thats almost the size I draw them normally lol

nice photo copies too (not photocopies lol)
I had a glance at amidoshishah and assuming you copied the image I'm looking at then you did a pretty good job. It looks like you drew it from a different angle though, so maybe it was a different shot after all. great shading on the faces throughout, even when you have just marked the shade area and not rendered it, you can see the form a lot more clearly. it does seem like your proportions vary during the drawings, so one face ends up larger than the other person in the shot, or the lips are larger than they should be etc (I can't see the images you copied to know if they are really like that or not) . the 2 bearded ones where you drew the beard are really balanced and good.

keep it up!
FAITO right back at ya :P

PS incidentally talking of counts, I drew just over 500 faces in my holiday bunch (although many were heavily incomplete), and I was noticing an increase in my skill with faces.
I therefore think your 1000 is not only an outstanding goal, but probably a very reasonable amount to see an increase in quality before and after. Any lower and maybe you wouldn't have a noticeable increase in skill, any higher and it would be a VERY hard goal to reach. It's reasonably hard :P
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 10:59:59 AM by suupertramp »

Offline eldritchmaestro

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Re: Miscellaneous Arts and Sketchbook
« Reply #574 on: September 30, 2018, 03:49:43 AM »
Even though I'm bleeding right now, I know at the very least there's no guilty feeling of 'I didn't try hard enough' if you do excercises in the 500-1000 range. I think I'm all tucked out of 1,000s though. Let me go 500 next time haha. 

Man it just occured to me if I did at least 1 1,000 grind every year from ages ago I'd be able to track my progress so much better at seeing where I'm at. I'll pay attention in the future.


My faces get slanted so much, and the lips get out of hand especially because of the teeth. In some situations there's a shadow between the lips so I have to invent something or three teeth are visible and if you draw them it's a fail. Female faces are also merciless: There are forms that show as light shadows (see contours) but if you dare display them in ink it looks bad (especially smile lines and the stuff)


Gah, I hear you on the guideline thing, I get what it's supposed to do, but I'm working with the theory of drawing through relationships rather than breaking them down e-g little finger is so and so smaller than middle finger and so on. I guess guidelines would make that easier, but I like doing it organically. Plus slowing down will be death. I'll hit my 1,000 mark and try that out for other studies.

Offline suupertramp

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Re: Miscellaneous Arts and Sketchbook
« Reply #575 on: September 30, 2018, 04:34:45 AM »
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I think I'm all tucked out of 1,000s though. Let me go 500 next time haha. 
well 500 is still definitely large. it certainly doesnt have the same impact as 1000 though. You've taken just over 2 months to get to the 700's, so 1000 is certainly looking like a 3 month venture. that's a lot when there's other things to work on as well. I don't know if 500 or 1000 would be better one way or the other as I rotate my studies very frequently, but it would help reduce the monotony at least.

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I'd be able to track my progress so much better
I cry at night knowing that I didn't do the redraw meme on the same piece every year to see my improvement.....
(That's partly because I didn't even know it was a thing for 5 years, and also because my paper organisation was so bad I never looked back to see what I actually could redraw. I'm finally sorting that out properly)

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My faces get slanted so much, and the lips get out of hand especially because of the teeth. In some situations there's a shadow between the lips so I have to invent something or three teeth are visible and if you draw them it's a fail. Female faces are also merciless: There are forms that show as light shadows (see contours) but if you dare display them in ink it looks bad (especially smile lines and the stuff)
I had that on my recent portraits - teeth and lips are a real pain. I try and just draw a tiny beginning or ending line for each tooth and skip the middle bit and it looks almost alright. you really do have to watch the shade and lighten up more than you would expect otherwise the mouth looks too dark in comparison to the rest of the face.
Here's what I mean
but thats so true about the smile lines for female faces. You really need the tiniest bit of a line or a broken line and thats it otherwise you make them look old :P

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Plus slowing down will be death.
fair enough :P

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Gah, I hear you on the guideline thing, I get what it's supposed to do, but I'm working with the theory of drawing through relationships rather than breaking them down e-g little finger is so and so smaller than middle finger and so on. I guess guidelines would make that easier, but I like doing it organically.
hmmmm I think I sort of understand you and fair enough there is more than one way to skin a cat. Guidelines can be whatever you want them to be though, so whatever helps you create a drawing, that isn't itself part of the drawing (such as a grid) counts. because when drawing say a whole figure, the guidelines stop you from messing up the "organic drawing". I think I sort of do this as well, I mean if I can draw it without guidelines, I will, so you're probably aiming at the step above :P

If you look at this I can explain it
Spoiler
It's not like I draw guidelines for every finger and every joint (although sometimes I have done), because that part is drawing "organically", or from memory. but I still need a general reference as to where they are meant to go to keep a track of my lines, hence the circle which marks the wrist, and the palm and thumb marking which helps keep the control when drawing the fingers.

I break down my drawing into "global proportions" and "local proportions" ie the scale of a hand to a foot vs the scale of each finger in a hand. often when drawing I permanently draw "local" so I proportion my next line to the previous line rather than the whole image, so I lose track of the "global" scale and my drawing gets out of whack real fast. I don't think that's relevant but it might help in some bizarre way :P

Offline eldritchmaestro

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Re: Miscellaneous Arts and Sketchbook
« Reply #576 on: September 30, 2018, 06:30:56 AM »
Ah, I immediately thought you wanted some 3d grid-line for every hand. My mind was noping the whole way dude haha. I'm so desperate to cross the finish line end of this month or some time in the next.

Tell me moar about this rotation jutsu of yours. It could be the best way to avoid stagnating too. For example whatever level up I've done with hands might depress me when I still can't draw bices and triceps, or a good face. I can see that pain coming, so I'd rather I'd rotated a bit to at least cover other bases. Also yeah projects be suffering.

Dude that face of yours turned out too well dammit! Share skills! Share teeth drawing skills.

And paper organization? What sorcery are you using. I think you're one of the few people who outdo me on abusing using a4 papers, so I imagine you must have a warehouse level of paper to deal with. I just shove mine in a drawer and try to forget them. They're so many... T_T


And also @Coryn sorry for late reply but thanks dude! I'm sorta chuffed myself, and you know it. Sometimes the only thing preventing an iffy situation from becoming worse is just getting it over with. When your hands are already in mud best thing is to finish up your work and then go wash your hands.

Offline suupertramp

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Re: Miscellaneous Arts and Sketchbook
« Reply #577 on: September 30, 2018, 03:51:17 PM »
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Ah, I immediately thought you wanted some 3d grid-line for every hand.
As much as I want to say yes, no, no I didn't :P

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I'm so desperate to cross the finish line end of this month or some time in the next.
Ganbatte!

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Tell me moar about this rotation jutsu of yours.
It's certainly not as amazing as you think it is. It's more noticeable during my intenser study periods, but basically I start to get ambitious with my drawings and try and draw something cool, often before finishing I will realize that I lack the hand-drawing skills to pull off the piece I want, so the next few pages will be a hand pose study. By then, I fancy doing a difference piece entirely and with my newfound hand-drawing skills I start, but find that I cant draw faces in 3/4 view. So the next few pages I try and figure that out. Several pages later I now have my 3/4 face under my belt for the time being, but now I fancy drawing men instead of women. So the next few pages are male upper body. I then wonder how different men really are from women with regard to my guidelines, and then for a few pages I draw guidelines of male and female to try and figure it out. By then I fancy drawing a finished piece instead of these studies, so I start off with this cool idea. Half way through I realize that I can't draw hands........and so it goes on :P

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Dude that face of yours turned out too well dammit! Share skills! Share teeth drawing skills.
Well its a self portrait and it looks nothing like me that's for sure lol
I'll do tutorials and stuff "soon". It will probably be less of a tutorial and more of my own notes to myself that I decided to make public, but at least it'll get done that way.

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And paper organization? What sorcery are you using.
All my drawings have always been stored chronologically in those fat holepunch binders that hold 500 sheets or so. The trouble is that they are squirreled away in my cupboard and I never glance at them, meaning many WIPs that I said "I'll probably finish this later" have been abandoned!!!! So over the next few weeks/months, I'm scanning the WHOLE LOT to digital, renaming each file to date format like "2018-09-30 (3).jpg" and sorting into year/month folders. I also make copies for my portfolio folder, in which i roughly clean the image from the scraps of drawings that surround it using mspaint, and I do the same again with any WIPs in another folder. So far I'm about 8% through.
I'm also amazed every time I find a good bit of artwork I have done - I can't say I have the confidence I could do the same thing again even 2 years later lol

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I just shove mine in a drawer
My shelf is permanently bowed downwards thanks to shelving them before I put them in a cupboard lol

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They're so many... T_T
I know right... T_T

Can you imagine how much output would be generated if we collabbed on something @_@

Offline eldritchmaestro

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Re: Miscellaneous Arts and Sketchbook
« Reply #578 on: October 01, 2018, 06:12:01 AM »
A suuperlego collaboration would be ridiculously epic. But our legendary circumstances would make that quite hilariously complicated at the moment. I say shelve that idea for a day when we are kami-samas of knowing exactly what we're heading for and doing.

Gawd your shelf? I must see this.

As for the organization digitilization plan... That... That actually sounds like tedious work that'd totally free up your mindspace when it's done. I can imagine the suffering while scanning, but if you ever pull it off the benefits would be amazing. Go for it suuper


So THATs what you mean by rotation. You know, I think I could even add my projects into the mix. It sure as heck would beat stagnation, and I know I didn't start drawing faces in the middle of my hand excercise just to give me a challenge. It was starting to feel just a little stale.
     In a way I think knowledge is meant to be assosciative like that, instead of isolatory. Gawd shoot me if I'm wrong but it's that something like ROM storage where data is accessed sequentially on a disc versus RAM storage where data can be directly picked off from whichever? I think the human brain and skills in general are like that: The more associations you have the better you strengthen the knowledge, rather than just piling up and mastering only one specific node. As a simple but important example kids who can play games on the playground without becoming bullies or having grudges with other students throughout their student lives will turn out to be stable employees in the future (And they'll be healthier maybe). Something like that. One skill helps with another. Man I suck at sharing my ideas haha.



inb4 Gridline workshop anyone?


P.S Your wall of text sickness is starting to attack me.

Offline suupertramp

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Re: Miscellaneous Arts and Sketchbook
« Reply #579 on: October 01, 2018, 06:35:52 AM »
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I say shelve that idea for a day when we are kami-samas of knowing exactly what we're heading for and doing.
Regrettably agreed on that one :P

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Gawd your shelf? I must see this.
Unfortunately I just started redecorating and I chucked it lol. I do still have my cupboard though as that started to bow as well, but it's covered with stuff. when I get to it I'll take a shot just for you :P

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That actually sounds like tedious work that'd totally free up your mindspace when it's done.
Yeah I noticed it was starting to become mental baggage at some point, and although I will still keep the paper it will be so great to have the digital versions. I've already sorted over 100 WIPS lol. nothing like overkill :P

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Gawd shoot me if I'm wrong but it's that something like ROM storage where data is accessed sequentially on a disc versus RAM storage where data can be directly picked off from whichever?
I actually said this exact phrase to myself several months ago, but I have frequently said on here that memory is a legitimate problem with improving in art. I'm slowly building up reference of my own creations which I plan on finalizing into a mini notebook which will help me to not lose any good habits I've been building up. My book title was legitimately going to be "The artist's memory expansion - 2GB edition" (leaving space for a 4gb etc later lol) .I only yesterday printed out a size trial with mock pages to see how small I could get the references and still be useful.
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I got it down to A7. The idea is that it gives you an idea of what to draw, not an exact reference to copy. So when you're stuck for a hair style or pose etc, you pick a random one, using it more as inspiration than an exact thing.


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The more associations you have the better you strengthen the knowledge
That's why mnemonics help so much, but it's hard to have a mnemonic for art because it's so complex. I think that's why it takes so long to get good at art.

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inb4 Gridline workshop anyone?
I would totally be up for that :P
you mean guideline though? that typo gets me all the time. either would be great haha

Offline eldritchmaestro

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Re: Miscellaneous Arts and Sketchbook
« Reply #580 on: October 01, 2018, 06:40:52 AM »
I actually said this exact phrase to myself several months ago, but I have frequently said on here that memory is a legitimate problem with improving in art. I'm slowly building up reference of my own creations which I plan on finalizing into a mini notebook which will help me to not lose any good habits I've been building up. My book title was legitimately going to be "The artist's memory expansion - 2GB edition" (leaving space for a 4gb etc later lol) .I only yesterday printed out a size trial with mock pages to see how small I could get the references and still be useful.
Spoiler
I got it down to A7. The idea is that it gives you an idea of what to draw, not an exact reference to copy. So when you're stuck for a hair style or pose etc, you pick a random one, using it more as inspiration than an exact thing.


Shut up and take my money! I want your booklet and a tutorial on how to make my own haha! No more will I have to suffer when I return to my comic projects to keep track of my characters' outfits.

And memory becomes quite irksome. I wish I could say I even remember the feel of copying 200 pages of Bleach, but apart from some vague tips a lot of it floated away. Gotta just admit a man needs tools to help with the process of drawing. Some difficulties are not worth their cost in time.



And haha I meant gridline guidelines, like breaking down objects that intensely to see if you're correct in percieving forms on a 3d surface muhuhahaha.

Offline suupertramp

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Re: Miscellaneous Arts and Sketchbook
« Reply #581 on: October 01, 2018, 06:51:05 AM »
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gridline guidelines
showoff :P

yeah it's much like learning a language to go back to that once again. even years down the line you can forget words, phrases and grammar structures that you might have spent hours getting into your head. (but it doesn't take as long to learn it the second time) Partly what I try and do with my study rotation albeit somewhat random and unorganized is to keep each skill in check and not forget, but art is such a large skillset that you inevitably miss something long enough to forget it again. Part of my other "really cool idea" that I had a while back was based on trying to cover each skill in a very short amount of time to prevent that very problem of forgetting stuff. but it's still in developmental stages.

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I wish I could say I even remember the feel of copying 200 pages of Bleach
I did some pages of bleach myself and while it wasnt as many, i remember at the time feeling something like "oh i get the hang of panel layout". I don't even know what that is now let alone getting a feel for it. Maybe if I had glanced occasionally at the pages I had done woud have reevoked that memory and the related skill. That's partly what my book is for.

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Shut up and take my money! I want your booklet and a tutorial on how to make my own haha! No more will I have to suffer when I return to my comic projects to keep track of my characters' outfits.
All in due time, my friend. If I do it properly, I might have it printed professionally and put it public, if not I'll make a pdf along with assembly instructions, or just make a bunch myself and send them out :P
the characters outfit remembering issue was also a reason I wanted some sort of database of references.
oh well, onwards and upwards :P