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Author Topic: dhpopo[dg[agpl[splgdsapl[  (Read 5807 times)

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Offline sketch survival

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dhpopo[dg[agpl[splgdsapl[
« on: July 19, 2019, 11:25:47 PM »
sfe[okpoksg[PS}FDplF
« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 10:39:26 PM by Karma »
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Offline Vacant

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Re: Diesinglong scenarios help me out please discuss with me
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2019, 11:42:56 AM »
Hey there, it seems you're very passionate about this project and have already gathered a lot of resources. I know you asked for some eyes on this in the chit chat topic so I've taken a look and I'm, well confused in truth.

This synopsis is a bit muddled and its hard to make sense of it. Is this a summary of the plot, an introduction, the history of the world or an amalgamation of all three? You're also throwing a lot of names/terms that people unfamiliar with your story wont have a clue about, so I'd either leave them out or give an explanation for them. If you streamline this a bit, then it'll be easier to read and understand the narrative and plot points you want to get across  :thumbsup:

Onto the actual part you asked for help with, it sounds like the sewer dungeon is going to be a good old fashioned tournament arc? (I haven't clicked on the link, I aint taking chances on files leading away from the forum bro, sorry)

You mentioned he's part of a band of misfits but then needs to improve his ranking by entering this tournament? Does the superior ranking allow him to pass through the border uninhibited?

My advice for running this kind of arc would be;
-Establish the stakes. What does advancing and winning in the tournament mean to the characters/plot? If escaping the country is so important and he is unwilling to fight, thats an interesting conflict to include. His need to win to grant others a pass to crossover such as his friends and family would outweigh his own reluctance to fight.
 
-Explore your extended cast. There's a reason Tournaments tend not to happen in the first arc of a story. The strength of this kind of plot point is that it gives you a great opportunity to showcase other characters aside from your main protagonist. Have others in his group do some combat, we can learn a lot about them, their motivations, abilities and back stories over the course of their fights. It's a great way to either introduce a rival or to end a feud between characters as well.

-Don't be afraid to mix it up. I know the tried and true traditional 1-on-1 elimination tournament is a staple of the battle shonen genre, but you can always have fun playing with the formula. Fairy Tails Magic Games arc was a good example, so too was MHA's sports festival. They didn't just have battles. There were challenges where characters used their powers to overcome the challenges, each in their own way. Have a think about if there are other ways you can vary the format. Maybe there's a game you can adapt to fit the style of your world, this could showcase your world building too. As an example, when I think of sewers, I think of a maze of dark, damp tunnels. You could make the whole challenge one giant labyrinth, where the characters have to make it out alive while facing an assortment of foes and puzzles along the way. This could all culminate in a big boss battle at the end.

Anywho, hope that helps, if you want me to expand on anything just let us know. I'm pretty lazy with logging in, so it might take a while for me to see any response, so apologies if I dont respond in a timely manner.  :cheer:



Offline sketch survival

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« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2019, 01:58:15 PM »
that's all in the past
« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 10:38:55 PM by Karma »
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Offline Coryn

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Re: Diesinglong scenarios help me out please discuss with me
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2019, 06:58:02 PM »
So, have to agree with Vacant up top there. You are pretty all over the place here Evan. It's pretty hard to follow what you're asking for here. Our of curiosity (and don't take this the wrong way), but what is your native language? I just want to get a grasp on where you're coming from here. I understand that working in a language that isn't your native is pretty daunting, and my utmost respect goes out to all that do.

I'm going to give some general advice: When asking for help on a story like this, always reduce the information you're presenting to prospective helpers to the absolute bare essentials. We don't need to know all of the character names and the jargon. Break things down into concepts. Main character, side character, antagonist, primary antagonist, evil empire, father, best friend, the main character's weapon, the mc'guffin, etc. These are the kind of words that you should stick to. It makes it so that anyone can understand you without having to go into intensive research to learn your world first.

It's also going to be useful to you to think of things in these terms. Stories are made of building blocks. Think of them like legos, or your plastic toy brick of choice. Individual bricks are understandable to anyone who comes across them, but if you scribble unique names onto all of them first, it's going to be a lot harder to understand you when you say "the flat 4x4 piece attaches to the top of the 2x6 brick". But once you are also thinking of them in generic terms, you will have learned something fundamental about all stories. They're all unique once fully assembled, but broken down to their essentials, they are the same as every other one.

As to what Vacant said about the links: We ask that if you have stories, that you post them directly to the forum. No offense, but we don't really know you at all yet. Trust like that takes time to build. It's easier for everyone if you just post your stories directly if you want the help. That goes for posting things like the wiki you've built. It's cool that you've done that, don't get me wrong, but flat out, no one is going to take the time reading it to try and piece together your characters and world. A piece of writing should always stand by itself. Wikis are not there to help people understand your story. If a person can't understand the story from the 'published' material, then you have failed as a writer. It doesn't matter if you're the most accomplished author in the world or just another nameless kid on the internet with an idea. Plus, giving us the actual material in an easily accessible format will help us give you better information than any summary possibly could. Back to the lego metaphor above, the blocks  will always be the same, it's how you put them together that matters.


Now, with that out of the way, let's get onto this arc of yours.

You definitely seem to have a bunch of ideas swarming around your head. I don't think what you need is for us to actually feed you specific scenarios. That's just going to lead to clutter. Clutter is the bane of the story writer my friend. You need to again, reduce things to their bare essentials. In this instance, ask the question: What is this sewer dungeon providing to the overall story? What purpose is served by your characters going through it? Who of those characters needs to benefit from having gone through the dungeon? Who does not need to be there? If that character doesn't need to be there, why do you have them there? Is that a good reason? What are the events of the story leading us here? Do they make sense logically? Is that reason contrived? Does the situation fit into the natural flow of the narrative? Is there an appropriately long rest from the action of the story before and after the dungeon? What do the characters ultimately hope to gain by entering the dungeon? (Not just the main cast, but every character we encounter). Does it make sense for those characters to be there? How are the events of this section of story going to impact the very end of the story? Is there any other way that those ends could be met? Would it be better if the results of this arc come from a different arc?

If you're having trouble answering any of the above questions, then you're trying to do too much. As the faithful acronym tells us: K.I.S.S., "Keep It Simple Stupid". Don't over complicate things that you don't have to. The reader will thank you for it.

Again, those aren't questions I'm asking you to answer here and now. They are questions I want you to ask yourself. They are also not an exhaustive list.

Now, some questions I do want you to answer:

        - When in the story do the events of this dungeon/tournament take place? (A rough percentage of completion is fine)
        - How many characters are involved? Grand total, and how many of that grand total are part of the main cast of character?
        - In a single sentence, what is the result of this arc going to be? If you can't sum this entire thing up using a single sentence, then I can tell you just from that that you have over complicated the whole thing.
        - What do you want your readers to feel during this arc? If you can, sum it up in a single word.
        - Now tell me what makes that word different from the word you would chose for the arcs on either side of this one.


I hope that isn't too big of an ask. But we need to set a baseline here if you wan't meaningful help. You need to be simple and direct to get the most benefit from a topic like this. I can make up scenarios for your heroes to find themselves in all day, but if I do, then I have failed you, because I wouldn't have helped you better the foundation of your story. A strong foundation is everything Evan. If you take nothing else from this whole thing, I want it to be that.

Will review stories upon request. My latest arc: http://goo.gl/KYgsfF

Offline sketch survival

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Re: Diesinglong scenarios help me out please discuss with me
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2019, 08:15:16 PM »
[oafdPOKfedpovsdga
« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 10:45:43 PM by Karma »
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Offline Vacant

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Re: Diesinglong scenarios help me out please discuss with me
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2019, 11:56:51 PM »
It seems like you're struggling to fit this sewer dungeon into the story. We cant tell you what to write, we can only help you along the way.

One thing I do when I'm struggling to plot a chapter/arc is I make a couple of lists. I list the objectives that I the writer want to achieve, the goals and motivations of the main characters involved and any major events/developments I want to happen.

From there, I bullet point the arc. It gives me a rough skeleton of the plot and helps figure out which pieces go where and what scenes will be pivotal. It also helps with hammering out any major inconsistencies or plot holes. 

My advice for the arc in question would be to put it in the second arc of your plot. Spend the first introducing the characters, setting up the world and showing the reader the conflict that happens that tears his life apart and requires him to flee.

The Sewer could be seen as a last resort perhaps and referred to as they attempt other routes. Perhaps the culmination of the first arc would one such attempt. They regroup and then try the sewer to cross the border and into the other territories.

Ultimately though, write it. You'll figure so much out when you start putting pen to paper (or typing). As the creator, you're in the best position to decide when events happen on the timeline of your story and getting it written down does wonders for helping you make sense of it.

Offline sketch survival

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« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2019, 01:11:43 AM »
onisg;oknls;kgnpKMVSDVSDPM
« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 10:41:20 PM by Karma »
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Offline Vacant

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Re: Diesinglong scenarios help me out please discuss with me
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2019, 11:17:41 PM »
What I meant by that was if the sewer passage can only be used by people of a higher rank. Say in the example you gave, they only allow b class or above through.

It would then make sense for why he needs to enter the tournament if the tournament winner is promoted a rank.

Youd have to explain  in universe why only higher ranked warriors can pass through an underground sewer but so long as the explanation makes sense in the story and world it's set in, then it should be fine.

Offline sketch survival

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Re: Diesinglong scenarios help me out please discuss with me
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2019, 11:24:33 PM »
Sounds like a great idea I'm gonna be writing and see this thread if I get anymore community feedback
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Offline Coryn

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Re: Diesinglong scenarios help me out please discuss with me
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2019, 04:48:48 PM »
Vacant had definitely laid out some good points. Actually sitting down and doing the writing is the single most important part of the story creation process. You gotta do it, or you're not actually a writer.

I'm glad to see you doing this, but I'll throw in a few more cents in regards to plotting out the actual dungeon.

As we've covered before, we can sit here and talk all day about interesting ideas of things that they could experience in the dungeon/tournament. But those things will always need some order, so here's my advice on that.

If you've learned literally one thing about story telling in your life, it's probably the plot curve. Y'know, this guy:



We set everything up with some exposition, then we have our point of no return (in which the protagonist accepts their quest and can no longer go back to the normal life they had before). Then we have a long sloping rising action, and then a climax. That's your moment of highest passion. The most intense and real the story is ever going to be. Afterwards we have falling action and resolution, which is basically the deescalation of the final conflict to until you set the protagonist back on neutral ground. The story is over, and the credits roll.

That is the case for the story as a whole, but each of your arcs should follow this exact same pattern. Every part of your story should be a fractal of the whole. In other words: Each building block of the final narrative resembles the complete story in microcosm.

So think of the arc in these terms. Things have to start out normal, and then the point of no return comes (the protagonists realize they must enter the tournament). Then you have to build and build and build and build. Hype is good, but a reader will get burnt out with just hype (You wouldn't want to eat the same thing for dinner every single day). Eventually they'll grow tired of it and want something different. So for every big bump in action, you have to given the reader (and the characters), a moment to rest. They need a little time to collect their thoughts. Think of these moments of stillness like little plateaus on the rising action line. The story is still moving along, but you aren't increasing the intensity yet. The reader has a moment to adjust to the new level, and then you can crank things up even further. So between every big action set piece, give everyone a moment to relax before moving on to the next one.

More importantly, it will give you as the writer a little time to collect your thoughts and discover the best place to go from where you currently are. Think it out logically. If you know you're universe well, you'll know what's on the other side of that door already. It will be the natural next thing for the characters to face. You won't have to think about it too hard. The right thing will come to you.

Best of luck with the actual writing! I look forward to seeing it!

Will review stories upon request. My latest arc: http://goo.gl/KYgsfF

Offline sketch survival

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Re: Diesinglong scenarios help me out please discuss with me
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2019, 02:26:07 PM »
egpokppo[kgsf[plsld[pg
« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 10:40:40 PM by Karma »
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