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Author Topic: Anime community is acting weird on YouTube  (Read 555 times)

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Offline Forlorn Serpent

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Anime community is acting weird on YouTube
« on: April 11, 2019, 11:04:59 PM »
This all started with the Vic accusations. Actually it was spear headed with that.

It originally started with anti-SJWs commenting on how it’s wrong to use words like patriarchy and gamer gate in anime dubs. They see it as spreading propaganda.

But now that funimarion is being targeted, I’m seeing a rise of really extreme mentality.
1) companies that license anime need to be 100% accurate.
2) false stories where the Japanese authors hate how funimation  is ruining their anime.
3) Funimation VA need to all be fired because they were not on Vic side
4) funimation will be axed by Toei (no proof) because VA are destroying the property


So I’m seeing the ethical points being raised. But in the back, I’m seeing anti-feminism, anti-diversity, and anti-you name it.

So is no one seeing it happen like what occurred in the Gamergate days?

They will pretend it’s about ethics but it’s not.
 

Offline OhGodHelpMe

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Re: Anime community is acting weird on YouTube
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2019, 12:32:24 AM »
I'm not really following the whole Vic thing (though I find the battle between the two sides hilarious).

Localizers here are garbage. Not every line of dialogue has to be a direct translation from the original (not that that's even possible if we're translating from Japanese), but there are some really stupid examples of otherwise normal lines being swapped with out of place pop culture references and politically charged language. This is particularly upsetting because the work they're translating isn't theirs to change like that. I get that part of the localization process is to make foreign material more culturally digestible for international audiences, but I don't really feel this way about anime. I like having my kanji jokes and my references to old NHK shows, and other distinctly Japanese things that make me scratch my head. Taking that away makes people feel like you've robbed them of a chance to experience and participate in a different culture.

There are far worse examples in gaming though. Certain Japanese titles have had entire mechanics removed in the U.S. versions based on the strangely puritan whims of the localizer. That's on top of strange dialogue swapping, outfits being changed, names being changed for no reason, already censored scenes being censored even further despite aligning with ESRB standards regardless, etc. That one Fire Emblem game was royally botched by incompetent localization and unnecessary changes.

Well, we are in the midst of a culture war, whether you want to accept that fact or not. Different factions want control of different mediums and expressions of culture. Things like video games and anime get caught in the crossfire everyday.

I just want my anime tiddies and for my dialogue to not get the Ghost Stories treatment for no reason.

PS: The anime community is trash and the anime YT critics like Digibro are cancer incarnate. There, I said it.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 12:34:25 AM by OhGodHelpMe »

Offline Forlorn Serpent

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Re: Anime community is acting weird on YouTube
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2019, 01:28:15 AM »
Does this make sense?
Vic is innocent -> accusers are Liars -> funimation is to blame -> funimation is garbage = SJW are taking over media.

I am also on the side of anime tiddies.  But two articles that get attacked on a YouTube video does not mean it’s a war. Most are just criticism not accusations

I just saw a video of My Hero Academia where it critiquing the anime change of female characters from plump to always skinny. It was a real critique, not accusing anyone of anything other than altering the original content. But that is transformed into SJWs want everyone to be fat.  So what happened to the ethical side of altering other’s media?

Critique is evaluating, not assaulting.

 And then we get, they are trying to ban Anime. But it’s just ban indecent anime. So I guess you have to defend why it’s okay to have ass shots and boob shots of 14 year olds and why you think it’s okay to think it’s wrong for a country to accept or reject media that goes against the country’s mores?

I know, never read comments but the level of logic is to the ground.

Online Manimal

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Re: Anime community is acting weird on YouTube
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2019, 10:46:23 AM »
This is particularly upsetting because the work they're translating isn't theirs to change like that. I get that part of the localization process is to make foreign material more culturally digestible for international audiences, but I don't really feel this way about anime. I like having my kanji jokes and my references to old NHK shows, and other distinctly Japanese things that make me scratch my head. Taking that away makes people feel like you've robbed them of a chance to experience and participate in a different culture.


This is exactly it, there's no better way of phrasing it.

I have no interest in the anime community, I have always found all this to be nonsense that takes away from the medium and I really dislike imposing Western elements on shows/games where they do not belong. I don't watch anime much if ever anymore, and I don't really know what's going on in "the community" these days, I just kind of think...who cares? I don't have well formed opinions on things like this, because I don't care that much, I care about what I care about and the medium/product itself not the extra bs. I dislike where Western culture as a whole has taken itself in the last say 5 years, nonsense & nostalgia, and I dislike people imposing this on anime where it does not belong. I like anime and J-Pop because it is a true alternative to shows/music we have here. I like as you say those little elements of culture that I don't get, that's the point of it all you know. It's different and it's meant to be.

Just a bit of a ramble from me, doesn't mean much.

Offline Forlorn Serpent

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Re: Anime community is acting weird on YouTube
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2019, 11:15:40 AM »
So basically

“I want to watch anime because it’s my window to another culture”

This entails laughing at their jokes, their references, their mannerisms.

So you guys are saying you watch dubbed anime to experience another culture and that’s how it should be?

Which makes me ask, at what point do you know you are experiencing another culture?  Real or otherwise?



Online Manimal

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Re: Anime community is acting weird on YouTube
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2019, 11:22:05 AM »
I don't watch dubs. Only when I first got into anime, not since 2013. I'm not a snob about it, I just think it's better how it's meant to be for myself. People can watch things how they choose and it's good to have the option. I watch anime because I like it and I think it's the best medium for entertainment in terms of shows because it has elements I connect with the most in shows like K-On, White Album 2, and such, and an overall different take on things sometimes for better sometimes not. It offers me what I can't get elsewhere. I think it's experiencing a small element of another culture, I'm not going to act like I know Japanese culture because I like anime, J-Pop and sushi. No way.

My point is more I don't like imposing of other values on the work and I don't think it belongs in the medium. 
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 11:38:29 AM by Manimal »

Offline Vacant

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Re: Anime community is acting weird on YouTube
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2019, 05:45:08 PM »
I think its a case of the most extreme fringes of a group being the most vocal when I look at the KickVic stuff. Whenever I check twitter, its accusations of threats, doxxes and all sorts from both sides of the field. They tend to get the most attention though due to the severity of the comments.

I do watch dubs personally and I'm not opposed to some changes to the script when needed, or them adding the odd joke in too. But the gamergate line in Prison School was unnecessary and had no place being there. It just smacked of the dubbers own agenda, rather than them feeling it fit the show.

Offline Forlorn Serpent

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Re: Anime community is acting weird on YouTube
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2019, 06:47:00 PM »
@vacant

Sub : don’t disrespect me, I’m older than you.

Dub: don’t disrespect me, wait are you a gamer gate creep.


So now let’s see if it changes the outcome or if it reeks of agenda pushing.

Would a chick who plays game mention gamer gate? Would a girl use it to ask if the guy is hostile towards women?

You know, In a show about girls hating boys?  Is it relevant and useful? Yes it is. Did it change the story at all? No freaking way.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 06:57:34 PM by Forlorn Serpent »

Offline Vacant

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Re: Anime community is acting weird on YouTube
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2019, 09:27:25 AM »
I agree, it doesn't change the show, but it certainly breaks any immersion I have during that moment in the show. It'd be like if they dropped in a line about "not seeing a mess this big since Brexit" in One Punch Man.

Is it a throwaway quip? Yeah. But is it likely to cause issues as a point of contention? Yeah. That's why I'd say its best to steer away from it and keep to the story itself.

You can argue by including the line, it makes GG canon in that universe, along with all the people involved. Also, it was from 2014, so its pretty dated to reference anyway.

So it is a throwaway line of dialogue, but it also is a member/s of the dub team using their role as an opportunity to dunk on those who were on the opposing side to them. No matter which side you agree with, it takes away from the main show itself.

So yeah, I'd ask them not to alter the scripts in that fashion. Unless its Ghost Stories. I need me some more of that good stuff.

Offline OhGodHelpMe

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Re: Anime community is acting weird on YouTube
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2019, 11:49:42 PM »
The scope of the line's impact is an irrelevant factor here. The translators essentially co-opted a line of dialogue from a Japanese show and altered it to include a dated, inflammatory reference to a highly divisive, Western internet controversy. They acted above their station and deliberately did that to insult people years after the controversy had simmered down. It was an overreach that went above translating or mistranslating. It was straight up re-writing a work that didn't belong to them, to include a reference that was never there, nor had any business being there.

Thanks to them, GamerGate is now canon in the world of Prison School.

Would a chick who plays games mention gamer gate?
I highly doubt it, especially if she's a Japanese chick in an arcade. Something tells me they don't make quips about GamerGate over there.

Would a girl use it to ask if the guy was hostile towards women?
She'd have to literally believe that GamerGate was caused by a ring of women-hating gamer losers that were just mad at women for being women in their subculture and not because the gaming journalists were blatantly ignoring proven ethical missteps over at Kotaku up until they put out the Gamers Are Dead articles, thus picking a pointless fight with already pissed off people and forever damaging the relationship between gaming journalists and consumers.

Which I doubt she even would because she's supposed to be a Japanese girl confronting some dude in an arcade.

But again, none of this is what matters. Co-opting material that doesn't belong to you is vile and it's happening everywhere you turn. Every tiny little instance like in Prison School, Dragon Maid, or Galko-chan all builds up and gives Japanese creators this false cultural reflection of the West, a reflection propagated entirely by snooty translators and political hacks. Once Japanese creators get the wrong idea of our cultural values and sensitivities, you're going to see a lot of the things you like in your anime and Japanese games disappear.

Or, you know, they'll just disappear entirely, as is currently the case for Japanese games. Fire Emblem Fates had its entire skinship mechanic removed because a minority of people thought that showing affection for someone by patting their heads and caressing their faces is gross, so Nintendo tried to appease them. Steam has gone on a ridiculously impossible mission to enforce un-enforcable rules pertaining to loli. Reddit introduced similar rules and banned a user for posting a picture of Kaguya-sama in a swimsuit. Sony butchered Nekopara so badly that it ended up being a rated E release on PS4. How does an erotic visual novel featuring steamy cat girl lewdness get the same rating as Barbie & Her Sisters: Puppy Rescue?

That's not even mentioning all of the other times they've bent over backwards to further censor games that already met ESRB standards, purely because a minority of shriekers and criers over here have managed to convince them that no one likes anime tiddies, headpats are gross, girls playing volleyball on the beach need to cover up, and we can't enjoy foreign culture without infecting it with our own, thus ruining the entire point of engaging with foreign media.


Offline Forlorn Serpent

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Re: Anime community is acting weird on YouTube
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2019, 03:06:20 AM »
@OhGodHelpMe

I want to see if i understand your points. So your arguement is that.

1) Referencing a fact in our world within a story (fake world) is wrong.

2) Prison School is an alternate world unless otherwise mentioned by the creator.

3) The original character's country has to be taken into account when dubbing.

4) Gamer-gate was nothing but an ethics argument and should probably not be talked about again.

5) SJWs will forever change Japanese media because Japanese see [not real] change and their process will change in order to meet the [fake] demand.

6) Changes in Game mechanics and changes in dub are linked and have no outside forces besides PC culture destroying media.

7) I want to experience media like it's suppose to be, everything westernized (language), but still retain the original media intent. 

Offline OhGodHelpMe

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Re: Anime community is acting weird on YouTube
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2019, 11:27:52 AM »
@OhGodHelpMe

I want to see if i understand your points. So your arguement is that.

1) Referencing a fact in our world within a story (fake world) is wrong.

2) Prison School is an alternate world unless otherwise mentioned by the creator.

3) The original character's country has to be taken into account when dubbing.

4) Gamer-gate was nothing but an ethics argument and should probably not be talked about again.

5) SJWs will forever change Japanese media because Japanese see [not real] change and their process will change in order to meet the [fake] demand.

6) Changes in Game mechanics and changes in dub are linked and have no outside forces besides PC culture destroying media.

7) I want to experience media like it's suppose to be, everything westernized (language), but still retain the original media intent. 

1. Not a general fact, but a specific cultural reference that has nothing to do with its setting.

2. No, Prison School is a sex comedy with a ridiculous setting, but still seems to take place in modern day Japan. That's the thing though. Japan. Believe me, no one is going to call you a GamerGate Creepshow in Japan. The issue is that it's a cultural reference that conflicts with its own setting. Cultural references aren't inherently wrong to include.

3. The setting is what has to be taken into account, so you don't slip in lines that break the viewer's immersion. The translators ignored that entirely in this instance.

4. If you disagree with my summarization of events, that's just another point to make. This instance was divisive for no other reason than to score a point over the opposing side. We can have a discussion on what GamerGate actually was in another thread. I have a boatload of archives of GamerGate threads from 4chan, 8chan, and Reddit, two of these supposedly some of the most awful places on the internet, where none of what was reported actually happened. What gaming journalists did back then isn't very different from what news corporations do today.

5. Yes and there are a slew of examples of this happening. It's always either journalistic backlash or public backlash. Goblin Slayer opened up with a rape scene in the first episode, but there was only ever a stink about it here, not in Japana. SAO has done multiple rape scenes, but Alicization in particular kicked up a major controversy here, and that's in spite of the scene being heavily censored to avoid this. Kenichiro Takaki said this when he was asked if he considered toning down Senran Kagura's lewdness:

A little bit. The game started out very small and that was the big selling point in order to move units. Now that the franchise has grown, and is getting more popular, it might be worth considering having features that differ depending on where it’s being sold. That way it might be able to sell better in certain regions where it would be problematic to have that kind of content...However, there are also reviews that ignore the games due to the sexual content, and write it off from the start, so those aren’t very helpful. If you’re going to write it off due to a main component then that game just isn’t for you, and that review isn’t really useful as feedback.


6. This is the actual case. Nintendo admitted they did this to Fire Emblem Fates because they thought they removed content that was inappropriate for the West, despite previous games having that mechanic. Sony said they started censoring games to fit a "global standard" that doesn't exist. One can surmise they did it for a similar reason to Nintendo, given that they're now headquartered in the U.S. and no longer communicate with Japanese devs in the Japanese language.

7. Yes please. Just translate it so that it can be experienced in English. Erasing the intent and writing in something of your own is awful.

Offline Forlorn Serpent

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Re: Anime community is acting weird on YouTube
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2019, 01:49:15 PM »
@OhGodHelpMe

Since we disagree with the foundation of what licencing means and utilizing western reference points, there is no actual reason to continue to discuss this anymore.


but, i do want you to elaborate on what you perceive the Cultural War to be.
 





 
« Last Edit: April 14, 2019, 02:08:50 PM by Forlorn Serpent »

Offline OhGodHelpMe

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Re: Anime community is acting weird on YouTube
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2019, 02:37:00 PM »
At it's core, I find it to be a battle between conflicting ideals and modes of thought. Each side wants their set of ideals to be the norm and they both have different ideas of how to achieve that. In this case, co-opting subcultures and the media they like is the method. It stretches to comics, video games, film, journalism, and social media too.

Offline Forlorn Serpent

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Re: Anime community is acting weird on YouTube
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2019, 02:42:37 PM »
Come on bro. I said elaborate, not beat around the bush. Everything you said is obvious.

Define the two groups and their ideals.

We can use your definition for reference in a couple of years. We can also see if the movement ever get co opt.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2019, 02:45:25 PM by Forlorn Serpent »