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Author Topic: Opinions of Collabs?  (Read 404 times)

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Offline Gasha

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Opinions of Collabs?
« on: January 03, 2018, 01:03:32 PM »
I’m curious as to my fellow manga enthusiasts thoughts on mangakas and whether or not you can be a TRUE mangaka if you can only write, or only draw, etc. Do you think someone can be a mangaka and make a semi decent living if they don’t possess ALL the skills necessary to make a manga, or do you think partnerships can work just as great as one person doing everything?
-Gasha

Offline EffulgentFirefly

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Re: Opinions of Collabs?
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2018, 03:33:07 PM »
Well, my opinions often don't speak for the majority, but personally, I don't think that making a living completely off arts, whether it be writing, drawing, music, etc. isn't super realistic for most people in the first place. Both my parents are part-time authors, and they don't make nearly enough from it to support themselves or the family, (hence why they have full-time jobs), and it's difficult to get your name out there. But that aside, as a writer myself, I think it's quite possible to make a manga with one person writing and one drawing-in fact, I've been doing it myself! It's a little more difficult, obviously, because it's two people, but it can work with a little time and effort. Of course, most people wish that they had both talents if they don't (myself included), but with the right mindset and a little chemistry, I think it can work.

Or maybe it can't, in the long run. And if so, someone tell me now so I can go back to writing just novels.
I'm too shy to initiate... But I'm open to anyone else doing it. Just tell me if you need to say something :D

Offline Corycaly

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Re: Opinions of Collabs?
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2018, 04:11:49 PM »
In France, it's the same situation. It's very difficult to make a living only out of arts. Many authors try to make their own projects using ulule/kickprojects systems so they can earn more than via the traditiona editor/author contracts.

Collabs are a delicate situation: you have to understand exactly what you can expect from the other person and what is expected out of you. Seriousness, trust, communication,  a precise organisation and respect are essential.

From my own experience, it's very dfficult to have a good collab when you are only an amateur, like 99,9% of our members.
Either the other person loses their interest after some days, either they think they can boss you around, either you end up being the only one working...Very deceiving experiences!
That's why I refuse collab: I have no patience nor time to lose anymore.

Of course, it's different when you are a pro, making a living off art: you have to make it work because your job depend of it.

Offline MK

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Re: Opinions of Collabs?
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2018, 04:33:15 PM »
There aren't that many collabs but for most of them the artist is hired by the author or publishing company to draw because it is a skill set that not everyone has.  Anybody can write a story, sure the people who do it for a living will be better but the bar to make an interesting story is much lower than the amount of practice needed for art.  You also have to consider, what if the artist wants to draw their own story?  Even the "simple" looking comics/manga takes more work than you think it does, if an artist makes it look really easy then it's because they have practiced a lot. 

Believe it or not, it's probably easier for you to learn to draw than it is to wait for an artist to pick up your story (if you don't want to pay for one).  If it's a good story then the audience will still like it.  Just look at One Punch Man, ONE isn't an artist but people will still read his webcomic for his story even though he has Yusuke Murata drawing the manga professionally at the same time.  If you look at ONE's art at the start and now you see that he has improved alot (especially since he was only doing it on the side while working another job).

Here's some artist/writer duos that I know of:
Merryweather/various artists (paid)
ONE/Yusuke Murata (inspired)
Tsugumi Ohba/Takeshi Obata (idk about this one)
We also have one person on the forum too Whitecrow/x (idk his artist but it is also paid)
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Offline Forlorn Serpent

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Re: Opinions of Collabs?
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2018, 08:31:09 PM »
For the people on our level, which is level 0, I think short manga stories will only work. This serves two purposes. Regardless if you are just a writer or artist, you can realistically finish a story. Also, this serves as your portfolio which will show many works instead of just one possibly bad story.

So if you collaborate, it should be like for a < 30 page story that ends. And keep doing it until you get famous, or you actually have the funds to hire a high rank artist or author.

I write children’s books for that very reason. Which in that industry, there is usually an illustrator you find to pay.

Offline The SlamJam

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Re: Opinions of Collabs?
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2018, 08:56:14 PM »
For the people on our level, which is level 0, I think short manga stories will only work.

Feels too *censored*ing real man :(


Offline erratic-error

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Re: Opinions of Collabs?
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2018, 05:33:35 PM »
In the professional world, co-op comics have their place and are fairly commonplace. Authors like Neil Gaiman, for example, have strong storytelling skills, but drawing isn't his specialty. He has a good amount of comics released, and absolutely none of them has he drawn himself, haha. Comic collabs have a niche within the industry, and it's especially prominent in the western part of the world. Even most of your classic mangakas in Japan will have assistants to help with the art process, editors to help streamline the story, etc. It also isn't unheard of to have a creator duo for webcomics as well, although from what I've seen, it isn't as saturated in the community.

I think collabs are a realistic idea, even online, but it's something I personally would approach with caution. Over the internet, people tend to disappear into the ether sometimes - it's part of the nature of the thing, I suppose - and a project could be stopped at the drop of a hat. Writers are picky about their art, artists are picky about their story, collabs can be an easy experience or stressful and full of tension. Take for example, group projects in school. If you choose the right partners, it'll be a smooth ride and easy to continue. If someone doesn't pull their weight, doesn't communicate, doesn't participate, it's nothing but a horrible experience. Finding a collab partner you trust and have a good time working with is the ideal, but could be hard to accomplish.

I personally suggest the same as Forlorn, above, that short stories are a great way to start. Especially when first starting a relationship in a collaboration. Attempting something on the smaller and easier end will help to warm up both sides to their rhythms of production before going for the throat of your dream comic. If by any chance either side drops, a short story will be much easier to recover from than the beginning of a long epic of a manga.

(also if you find an artist for free, it's pretty likely they aren't incredibly experienced... The extra time spent working on a small comic will inevitably improve the look of your ideal story when you do get to it, versus if you had just gone straight for it)

Offline Gasha

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Re: Opinions of Collabs?
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2018, 07:29:30 PM »
In the professional world, co-op comics have their place and are fairly commonplace. Authors like Neil Gaiman, for example, have strong storytelling skills, but drawing isn't his specialty. He has a good amount of comics released, and absolutely none of them has he drawn himself, haha. Comic collabs have a niche within the industry, and it's especially prominent in the western part of the world. Even most of your classic mangakas in Japan will have assistants to help with the art process, editors to help streamline the story, etc. It also isn't unheard of to have a creator duo for webcomics as well, although from what I've seen, it isn't as saturated in the community.

I think collabs are a realistic idea, even online, but it's something I personally would approach with caution. Over the internet, people tend to disappear into the ether sometimes - it's part of the nature of the thing, I suppose - and a project could be stopped at the drop of a hat. Writers are picky about their art, artists are picky about their story, collabs can be an easy experience or stressful and full of tension. Take for example, group projects in school. If you choose the right partners, it'll be a smooth ride and easy to continue. If someone doesn't pull their weight, doesn't communicate, doesn't participate, it's nothing but a horrible experience. Finding a collab partner you trust and have a good time working with is the ideal, but could be hard to accomplish.

I personally suggest the same as Forlorn, above, that short stories are a great way to start. Especially when first starting a relationship in a collaboration. Attempting something on the smaller and easier end will help to warm up both sides to their rhythms of production before going for the throat of your dream comic. If by any chance either side drops, a short story will be much easier to recover from than the beginning of a long epic of a manga.

(also if you find an artist for free, it's pretty likely they aren't incredibly experienced... The extra time spent working on a small comic will inevitably improve the look of your ideal story when you do get to it, versus if you had just gone straight for it)

100% this! Thanks for those thoughts, really insightful. :)
-Gasha

Offline HaKhan

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Re: Opinions of Collabs?
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2018, 12:14:43 PM »
There is also the business strategy. I doubt it is possible to find someone who will be majorly successful who can do everything. I think partnerships can work far better due to specialization but the people have to agree and see eye to eye on the creative vision and have a sort of strategic savvy.

I cannot draw for *censored* but I know my storylines will be 10x better than some of the most famous animes so I'm not really concerned as to this question. Definitely someone can make a popular manga without being an artist or a writer. But the idea of finding a random partner is also silly.

A lot of artists have no business savvy and don't understand strategy, even mock it. I've found there is sort of this attitude among some of the Manga boards like "You haven't drawn a series, you don't know what you are talking about. hah what amateur'.

Ummm sorry, there are a lot of good artists out there. I wouldn't say a dime a dozen but I think there are more people who can draw great characters than there are people who can pound the pavement and carve out deals with distributors and think long term strategically.

Artists often like to talk *censored* to salesmen, they highly highly undervalue and underestimate the level of commitment it takes to break out of obscurity.

So you probably want a team that brings comparable levels of strength in their field.

I’m curious as to my fellow manga enthusiasts thoughts on mangakas and whether or not you can be a TRUE mangaka if you can only write, or only draw, etc. Do you think someone can be a mangaka and make a semi decent living if they don’t possess ALL the skills necessary to make a manga, or do you think partnerships can work just as great as one person doing everything?