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Author Topic: What do you think of this art style?  (Read 504 times)

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Offline Hammilton

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What do you think of this art style?
« on: July 05, 2017, 09:03:59 AM »
I'm hoping that I've posted this in the right place.  I'm hoping that you all might be willing to take a look at this page I've started.  The first panel took me a few days and the others I did in an evening.  Ignore the sketching in the last empty panel; the light sketching is only vaguely related to what I'll finish there later.  I want to hear what you think of the quality and style of my art.  I'm trying to go for some sort of blend of the art of Blade of the Immortal, Nekogahara and something of my own creation.  I dislike the perfectly smooth perfect linework like is found in virtually every manga in Shonen Jump.  I like the sketchy-er, looser art and loose brush strokes.  But what I like and and what I'm going for is irrelevant.  This is actually the first time I've ever drawn a manga page aside from doing storyboards.  I'd worked on a project with Cephalonlethea, who I met here and hired to draw my story, though we were really partners on the project, paying him 700USD before he ripped me off without finishing even three pages.  They were beautiful pages, but not near what we agreed upon.  So I've spent the past six months working very hard to learn to draw and sketch and ink, spending 2-4 hours a day in the effort.  I miss having a partner to motivate me to finish pages and bounce ideas off of, though.

I guess basically what I'd like to know is whether, if the story is good if you would read a manga with this quality and style of art.

I know my paneling could be improved.  I think it might be better to have more dynamic paneling for a first page but I opted instead for a very detailed complicated and painstakingly drawn opening panel.  I think that I might instead make this a page two or three and add some exposition before it.

I'm still looking for a writer or another artist to help improve things like paneling and to improve the story a bit.


upload a new photo

Offline Gabryel

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Re: What do you think of this art style?
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2017, 09:49:32 AM »
First of all, sorry for that bad experience. It's the first time I hear something like that from the client side (I know more artists who put in work and don't get paid), but that's real bad business.

If you want to tell something about your story, I'd be glad to listen.

About your first page:
The overall atmosphere makes me curious about what this manga could be about, because the curly wobbly background and starting scenery has a kind of surreal feel that you don't see very often in Mangas. So if you were to continue developing your style in that direction, I think that is promising and interesting.

But - first thing I notice as a more experienced artist is, that besides the very detailed style, the basic understanding of anatomy, perspective and overall knowledge about the objects drawn is still very basic. The train pic has good perspective and interesting smoke but without speedlines, it looks static. If you hope to find a publisher or make it a serious manga, you should first brush up on that, and it will take you a lot of time. Know this:

Experienced artists don't always know what an object looks like, but will search for references to base it off from. If I was to design a beetle-themed armor, I would search for pics of the most curious bugs and take elements of their appearence as elements of the armor. For backgrounds of my own manga, I use google streetview to find places, sometimes I just put them in the background and trace them - everything is allowed! What I learned back in the graphic school was: The most important thing is to know all the tricks.

If it is a big project, let it work in your head and make at least 2-5 smaller projects of 10-50 pages or practice on artworks. If you start this now and develop your style on the way, you WILL end up remaking the first pages next year latest, because your skills have improved and you hate what you did before (at least that is what happens to me every 1-2 years, even every 6 months when I was younger). Do yourself a favor and do not start with a project too big, it will demotivate you.

Use that time you need to develop your art to even develop the story more. As I said, I'll be glad to talk about your story. pm me, visit me on FB for chat or if I can come online on twitch and talk. This also gives me another good reason to translate and continue my art class :3

I really hope I didn't demotivate you - I do think it is a very interesting beginning, and I am convinced if you manage to keep it up, this will be good.
The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. (S. Hawkins)

Offline eukocar

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Re: What do you think of this art style?
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2017, 11:09:07 AM »
Amazing I love the art style  ;D

how to add pics mmm lets see.....lets try this

Offline S8N

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Re: What do you think of this art style?
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2017, 05:16:47 PM »
I know I just replied on your other thread, but I also want to give my critiques on this. Bear in mind that I am viewing this as a potential member of your audience as opposed to a professional artist (because I'm definitely not one).

The art itself is not a typical anime style, in fact, resembles more of a western comic. Since I haven't seen more, I can't say that this is a definitive observation of mine. Nor is it a bad thing, bear that in mind. There are huge fan bases for western art as well as manga and anime.

The art style itself is sort of unpolished. It looks like traditional art (from its appearance), which isn't necessarily an issue, but finalized comics/manga usually are completed digitally. some shapes (IE: The hand in panel 2) definitely look strange from first glance. It is important that things like this do no stand out to the reader. The comic also seems abstract, which can be very useful (especially for the plot of the story). Abstract art has been seen in artworks before (IE: Puella Magi Madoka Magica) which played a great role in the aesthetics and uniqueness. However, make sure it does not become distracting.

Gabryel brings up a great point with her warning of starting small. If this project is the thing that you've been dreaming of making ever since you were little, make sure your drawing skills are on par to what you (and your reader) want to see in the finished work. Not trying to be rude, but I personally can't appreciate the art style itself, but it certainly has potential to become better. Becoming a successful artist takes effort, and once you put it in, I'm sure that your piece will yield the expected results.

Remember, the audience will judge your work on every panel that you draw. Make sure that everything flows properly, and the visual appearance itself is satisfactory. Looking forward to seeing your work.
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Offline MahluaandMilk

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Re: What do you think of this art style?
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2017, 09:20:37 PM »
Yeah, to summarize, I feel that the overall composition of each panel is detailed, yet unrefined. I'd definitely take to Gabyrel's advice and tackle some smaller projects before taking a big one.

As for what I think of where the art style could be headed, I like it. If I mentally refine it, I definitely see some beautiful things coming out of this, especially if you ever get to the point of adding color, if you go that route.
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Offline Hammilton

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Re: What do you think of this art style?
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2017, 09:41:32 PM »
I absolutely don't want it to look like it's been finished digitally.  When did "anime style" become synonymous with manga style (which I use loosely as a westerner); I've been primarily influenced by reading manga, but not a lot of shonen stuff.  I'm a huge fan of Shuzo Oshimi, Inio Asano, Hiroaki Samura, Hiroyuki Takei, none of whom make what would be confused with the shonen jump manga/anime digital fusion.

Not defending my work, I just really don't like the idea that manga has been so homogenized that it's all digitally smooth lines and completely devoid of life.  Not that I'm completely opposed to making use of digital techniques; panel two will be finished digitally, bubbles and text as well.

It certainly isn't a project I've wanted to do for a very long time (well, a year or so, I suppose) and if I wanted to wait until my skills were developed to the point that everything was perfect I'd never get to the point of drawing it.

So I've decided to just start drawing it and not make any excuses.  I've spent the last six months seriously working, as I said, and the previous ten years on and off, to get to the point that I would be able to draw a story well enough that someone might want to read it.  I hope I can get to at least that point here.

(fwiw the train should appear static, it just stopped, which would be more readily understood when text has been added)

I've set as a goal to finish the first chapter and go from there.  I'm targeting two to three pages per week and more as I improve.  based on what I've outlined I'm looking at about 24 pages, and I do hope that at the end I'm able to go back and redo the first pages, absolutely.  That'd be great!  There are things I'm really not thrilled about, esp. the train image (never liked drawing machines, but fortunately in what I've conceived there will be very little of that; it's unfortunate I've chosen to include that on the first page, though); it's just not done well enough. 

I'm hoping to find someone who wants to work with me to develop the story further, improve dialogue and paneling.  Tell me to redo something even if i don't want to, lol.  Besides, I really don't have a solid idea where I want to take the story, just an outline. 

Here's a better scan of the image.


Offline MahluaandMilk

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Re: What do you think of this art style?
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2017, 09:57:10 PM »
Do you want legitimate crits or not? Because crits are things that you build up from, and what can be done better. They aren't just pats on the back and good jobs for what does look good. What I've seen in most of the comments is that you have a good start, but your foundations of art such as shape, form, perspective, and value need work. Only one person mentioned that many published works happen to use digital touches, but don't simply confuse the use of "unpolished" in that paragraph with "YOU HAVE TO GO FOR A  DIGITAL LOOK". Nobody said anything of the sort. It's perhaps more than just a little unwise to bite back and try to lecture people when you're the one who asked for feedback.

That said, I admire your determination. I have sadly fallen out of practice, and I respect those who can pour so much time into their crafts. If you go at that pace and get your story out, you will likely see improvements, but in the meantime, it would not be a waste  of any of your time or practice to draw from life, and I don't mean photographs or images on the internet. The things you can learn from drawing everyday items are crucial, almost as much so as the human anatomy. That isn't saying "you must make your style realism." That's saying that realism is a good teacher and can help your style look good.
"My manner of thinking, so you say, cannot be approved. Do you suppose I care? A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!"--Marquis de Sade
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Offline S8N

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Re: What do you think of this art style?
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2017, 10:15:22 PM »
Perhaps I was being too kind with my reply. If you are going to void everything I offered for you in my critiques in the way you did, refrain from asking for opinions in the future.

I told you that I am a member of your usual pool of audience, and I'm telling you right now, the piece is unfinished. Whether you want to deny it or not, I wouldn't walk out of a bookstore with a piece like yours.

Perhaps you came across as rude or provocative, and did not mean it that way. Regardless, in a thread like this, it is those words that will set your reputation in the community. If you can't accept the criticism of people who are trying to help you improve, you are in for a rough time in the world out there where nobody cares about your progress, only results.
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Offline devola

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Re: What do you think of this art style?
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2017, 10:34:13 PM »
Just to chime in here, I don't think OP was necessarily deflecting criticism but perhaps misunderstood what S8N meant. S8N looked at your work from the perspective of a reader, someone who is not going to know your intentions or how you feel about digitized artwork. Because most works are often touched up digitally, your work has to stand out in contrast with that if you choose not to employ digital techniques. Your style, your artwork has to be refined to the point where a reader won't notice that and I am assuming that is the issue here. Remember that you as an artist have to communicate what you feel to an audience that cannot read your mind and won't always understand what you intend!

As for your statement regarding the ubiquitous aspects of digital work. I would just be careful about making a blanket statement like that. Remember that those manga/comics are successful not only because they are digital but because the art style and technique play an important role in communicating personality and emotion in their work. Most of my favorite artists are digital artists but their work is hardly what I would consider devoid of life. This topic is subjective by nature, so generalizing something so broad will only narrow your possibilities!

Now on to an actual critique of your work haha. I'm not gonna rehash anything that has already been said so I will start with this. Your first panel is the most interesting panel to me. It reminds me of Junji Ito's work and the abstract elements you use are immediately striking and interesting. I like the way you represent (what I think is darkness) with those abstract tones, and the smoke on the train is visually striking. I would say, at a glance from what you've shown this is the most appealing aspect of your art style to me. As for you what you can improve? I would defer to Gabryel sensei's advice, trust me on this. She has helped me IMMENSELY improve!

Offline Hammilton

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Re: What do you think of this art style?
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2017, 10:46:09 PM »
Quote
Nobody said anything of the sort. It's perhaps more than just a little unwise to bite back and try to lecture people when you're the one who asked for feedback.

I'm deeply thankful for all of the comments I receive.  Most of it I'm aware of, all I see are flaws when I look at the page!  Getting my hand to correct those flaws is the problem :)  I expected to hear nothing positive, so for anything along that line I'm very appreciative, and even the negative, since they serve to reinforce my thoughts about where I need more work.

After years of practice and six months of really serious work, though, I've been trying to come to a style that I think works for me; I spent too long trying to duplicate others work and being frustrated.  I'm absolutely aware of my weaknesses.  Too aware.  What I was really looking for (and again, I probably failed to convey this) was what was thought of the general style, something a bit looser, blending graphite, brushed ink and multiliners.  Perhaps this wasn't the best page to show. 

The reason I was asking this and not more specifically about my personal skills is because if I can't make this idea I'm going for work, and it's not something anyone would want to follow, there's little point in pursuing it.  I'm well aware that this is not saleable work; that's not was I was suggesting or hoping to hear.  Again, I'm well aware of how far I have to go to reach that point.

Again, I sincerely apologize, I'm really not good at conveying tone in posts like these.  Too much time spent on academic boards has maybe gotten me into a habit of writing too formally and I continue working to break it!

Offline MahluaandMilk

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Re: What do you think of this art style?
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2017, 10:53:34 PM »
See, you almost had me, but that last statement...yikes.

I'm an English major. I know academic writing. I read published ethnographies in my spare time for the hell of it. Academic boards? Please. Whether or not you intended to be an ass is irrelevant to the fact that you presented as an ass. If you want to claim "academic" as your defense, then surely you realize that diction is everything, and that tacking "Not defending my work--I'm just" to the end of it serves no better than tacking "no offense" to the end of an offensive statement.

I'm not going to tell you to quit, or that you should shut up entirely and go home, or something trollish, but it really might serve in your favor to stop trying to cover yourself here. You made a mistake. Move on. Don't linger and make excuses. Just keep your mind on your project and show us your determination through it.
"My manner of thinking, so you say, cannot be approved. Do you suppose I care? A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!"--Marquis de Sade
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Offline MK

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Re: What do you think of this art style?
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2017, 11:08:17 PM »
I wouldn't give up on your manga if you really want to go through with it.  No one was born an artist or got skills overnight, we all had to put YEARS to get to our current skill levels.  Those "15 year old prodigies" aren't born with special, they just started at a younger age.

Anyways, as for my critic.  Try to put less clutter in the background, that way it doesn't confuse the reader.  Also on the last drawn panel, use speedlines towards the center of the focus.  This will direct the reader's attention towards the center or where ever you want them to look at
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Offline Hammilton

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Re: What do you think of this art style?
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2017, 11:20:23 PM »
Thanks MK, Devola.

Everyone else, thank you as well, and additionally my apologies; I didn't mean to offend anyone; I was asking specifically about style and made a comment about the style I was working toward; I find it strange that everyone is upset about that, when I have agreed with everything that was written about my personal flaws.  if anything I was defending a style that's gone, well, out of. 

I think the sort of writing in ethnographies differs more than a little than what would typically be termed the hard sciences to which I refer by academic.  Maybe I'm wrong.

This has gone a little off the rails, so to speak, though, so I'll just conclude with a big thank you to everyone who took the time to offer comments, and please realize that whether I expressed it well or not, I actually agree and accept everything you've offered.

Offline S8N

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Re: What do you think of this art style?
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2017, 11:32:51 PM »
 
Thanks MK, Devola.

Everyone else, thank you as well

I find it strange that everyone is upset about that, when I have agreed with everything that was written about my personal flaws.  if anything I was defending a style that's gone, well, out of. 

I think the sort of writing in ethnographies differs more than a little than what would typically be termed the hard sciences to which I refer by academic.  Maybe I'm wrong.

I hope you realized how passive aggressive you are. I'm seriously not sure if you are honestly ignorant, or you think you can get away with it. Keep in mind that there are people here that have been here far longer, and helped far more people than you did. They deserve the proper respect, and if you can't reply to them without the doubt that you might further insult them, simplify your answers to avoid seeming rude.
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Offline MahluaandMilk

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Re: What do you think of this art style?
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2017, 11:37:01 PM »
I don't disagree that it comes off as passive aggressive, but this has gone on too long. Might as well give the guy the benefit of the doubt instead of agitating the situation. Let's let him put his art where his mouth is, so to speak. There's no point in raising tensions over words at this point. Clearly communication on all sides is faltering. It's best to break from the situation, at least until tomorrow.
"My manner of thinking, so you say, cannot be approved. Do you suppose I care? A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!"--Marquis de Sade
"A loss of innocence / one hand to wash the other / be a perfectionist / you're nothing if you're just another"--TBM, "Goodnight"
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