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Author Topic: Eden Husk // Apocalypse Archive  (Read 4061 times)

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Offline Lumaria

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Re: Eden Husk // Apocalypse Archive
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2015, 11:11:19 AM »
So what are you going to do to fix it?
Stop playing victim....you know what you did.

Offline NO1SY

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Re: Eden Husk // Apocalypse Archive
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2015, 12:12:09 PM »
Well, I gave it another read over - corrected some spelling and grammatical errors and such. It doesn't read too bad, especially with the additions I made and making the whole piece consistently present tense. So I've done the "fixing", anything else would be "changing", which I don't think is necessary at the moment.

It's further away from the style of narration that the novels Lego linked have now, which is a shame as I like how that narration feels, but I don't think I'm going to rewrite it to read like that now that I removed the parts that were similar before. I also don't think I can pull that off to a convincing level either.

I am ok with this section now, with the changes I have made so far, so I'm going to just continue writing the next bit that I can manage.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 08:25:17 AM by NO1SEY »

Offline Lumaria

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Re: Eden Husk // Apocalypse Archive
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2015, 08:22:22 PM »
No1sey, i honestly see no true attempt to "earn" the reader's attention. The story just pushes and makes it so it assumes the readers attention. Continuing to read and all present tense, but again purely detached.


if the characters don't matter in chapter 1, they will never matter. i understand you're not trying to tell the most unique story. but here's something that caught my eye from what you said:

I'm more interested in the best way to write and read it as opposed to just adhering to guidelines.

What is the best way and why do you believe it is best to write it that way? you have third person. you have present tense. both working "against" each other at the moment.

You have what appears to be character-driven story, yet you don't want to focus on character development in chapter 1 until it "calls for it" which is purely based on the decision of the writer.

And of course, revealing a lot of things, and giving answers to basic questions but ignoring the bigger questions that the reader has asked probably thrice within the story. It gives a sense of you wanting to answer all our questions but not knowing what our questions are. The story doesn't recognize the questions we want answered.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 08:28:30 PM by Lorenx1 »
Stop playing victim....you know what you did.

Offline NO1SY

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Re: Eden Husk // Apocalypse Archive
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2015, 08:52:32 PM »
I'm not sure I follow with what you mean by earning the reader's attention? If some people find it entertaining then that's great and if others don't then well... that's a bummer but I can't cater to everyone's tastes. Some people have found it interesting so far and some haven't... I'm ok with that. If you want to stay to find out if Noah escapes the box then great. If you want to stay to find out what powers Noah gets then great. If you want to find out who the precursors are then great. If you want to find out about Noah and how he changes then great. If you want to find out about the Archivist then great. If you want to find out what Pandora wants then great. If not, well then this isn't the story for you... If you feel that, after reading some, you don't care for the characters and the story that they are a part of then you don't have to read on.

I did take in your feedback though and changed it to make sure that the perspective was consistent the whole way through and to make sure that the pacing of Noah's adjustment is a bit better and that there is some sort of connection between Noah's thoughts and feelings and his actions. I still have 3/4 more encounters with the precursor beings to write, which will hopefully reveal more about Noah's character and why he is how he is, as well as sparking a change in how he is... so maybe questions will be answered then, I don't know...???

Ah that line was in response to Aozora's (previously Usopp) comment about how LNs have a writing style guidelines that are generally strictly adhered to. I'm just writing a piece in prose, not for a LN or anything like that, so I'm not interested in adhering to those guidelines. I don't know the best way to write, and I'm not going to pretend to know. I decided when writing that I was going to do this in 3rd person present tense and now after some tweaks I am happy with the result, despite it being a bit jarring at first. It could be done in 3rd person past tense, but I enjoy the pace that the present tense gives, as well as the contrast between Noah's story and when he is seeing the lives of the precusors: His story is happening now, and theirs have already happened. I knew that I was never going to write this in 1st person however, although I can imagine how it would work, it's just personal preference.

Offline WhiteCrow

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Re: Eden Husk // Apocalypse Archive
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2015, 09:24:55 PM »
Doing some pre-emptive scouting... is this the story you stated you needed to create so that when the next Character gathering comes around you'll have a horse in the race? If so... then i'll need to write a full scouting report.

Offline NO1SY

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Re: Eden Husk // Apocalypse Archive
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2015, 09:30:54 PM »
Maaaaaaaaaybeeeeee  :-X

Yeah, but I took the opportunity to use some other ideas and concepts I've been sitting on for the story, so it's more than just a story to get a super-powered MC out of now. It's a story that I genuinely want to tell.

I don't know what to expect from your next community character story though...

Offline WhiteCrow

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Re: Eden Husk // Apocalypse Archive
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2015, 09:40:42 PM »
It's called:

MR AVENGERS (Simply because nobody has suggested a better name): Age of Corruption

Offline NO1SY

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Re: Eden Husk // Apocalypse Archive
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2015, 09:50:02 PM »
Sounds ominous  ;D

Well, hopefully by the end of the story Noah (or Dante... haven't 100% decided on the name yet) will be sufficiently powerful so that he can compete.

I know you also want the community story to have an impact in the character's worlds, and it should be set up for that to happen quite freely here.

Anyhow, scout away!

Offline Lumaria

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Re: Eden Husk // Apocalypse Archive
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2015, 11:57:41 PM »
OK..how about some perspective No1sey....

just tell me what your story does right, why it does it right. and what you believe your story is implanting with readers head and recognizing the reader.


Show me in what instances have you attempted to gain/earn the readers attention. i don't buy the "you like it, or you dont. great/ bummer" perspective. You of all people should know when reviewing a story, you put the reader's perspective at all times and seeing what they gain out of it.


and i'm not asking you where you did earn my attention. but where you tried to earn my attention. instances where you developed properly and wanted readers to gain curiosity on it.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 12:01:10 AM by Lorenx1 »
Stop playing victim....you know what you did.

Offline Operative13

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Re: Eden Husk // Apocalypse Archive
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2015, 01:04:21 AM »
New competition for the Character Tournament? Looks like there's gonna be one more to add to the beatdown list!  :D  :heart:

It's great you have this awesome background story to go with your character. I myself haven't even considered writing down Corporal Allens' story even when I have the bullet-points to go with it (I have a tendency to make up ideas then leave them abandoned in my docs...) It's a shame you couldn't join in time for the tournament. We had an extra spot left  :-\ But there's still a chance for the next tournament, eh?  ;)

Have you considered you may be writing in third-person omniscient? You can choose to be very picky over which things you choose to reveal and which you don't concerning each of the characters within the story, but at least you aren't forced to stick to the convention of only revealing just one character's thoughts and emotions.  8)
“To give of oneself is the noblest of all acts.”

Offline NO1SY

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Re: Eden Husk // Apocalypse Archive
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2015, 07:32:07 AM »
It wasn't that I couldn't join in time, but I had my exams and was in the thick of revision, so I had no time to join :(

Whitecrow let me know he'd be planning another one for later this year, so I wanted to make sure that I had a character ready to go by then. Then I just found that I could include several ideas I had been sitting on in his background story, so decided to make it a full fledged piece.

Thing is when you go for an omniscient approach, especially when following the story of one person in particular, it's quite hard to keep the story focused and feeling like it's moving forwards. Especially in this story where I want some motives to remain hidden until the very end.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 07:44:37 AM by NO1SEY »

Offline NO1SY

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Re: Eden Husk // Apocalypse Archive
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2015, 01:09:21 PM »
Ok... well... I'm not happy with how Noah's character has turned out after writing for the second precursor. His story is more tragic and soppy than I want it to be... Soooo it's back to the chopping block for this story.

Noah will still be my character for the future community character story and he will still gain powers from 4 beings and see their stories. But this storyline with him and Pandora and him having to become a better person just feels a bit too much like a sob story now... not what I wanted.

So, I will leave as is until I re-plan and re-write... dammit...

Offline Lumaria

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Re: Eden Husk // Apocalypse Archive
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2015, 04:43:19 PM »
Here are the main problems that can make any reader just instantly stop reading and automatically label this as bad writing.

When it comes to Noah's character you do a lot of telling, none of the showing. Sometimes its ok, sometimes its not. For your story, its a serious sin. Things such as him being uncomfortable in big places with people. Its not bad, but it doesn't feel like a true character trait if its not a reoccurring aspect that we see him show (not tell). Followed by Noah acting like a freak and immediately saying "go away, leave me alone" to Pandora didn't feel like a true character trait. because of no expansion on the other aspects and to what degree, him reading like that is random traits.


You have to look at the tiny things he does and see if it actually consistent to the main idea you want readers to gain out of him. Other contradictions include: If his desire is to be alone, why does he want to go back to that world? There should be a reason why he so desperately needs to go back. In which you provided none.

After this, character development between Pandora and Noah. Very unrealistic. Pandora being "tethered" to him didn't really have much significance. At this point, this is where "i'll only answer what i want to answer" and "characters are asking the questions i want them to ask" but you did absolutely nothing to assure the reader that "the bigger questions are recognized, and they will be looked into."

For example: After revealing that box is to encase the city of eden....that is where all real questions stopped. Now its just asking the small questions "what is that", and "what are those creatures" there was no real reason for the characters to stop asking the grittier questions such as "why is Eden trapped in this land"

Noah unrealistically doesn't want to understand his situation but he asks questions of what is what and why he can't escape with those creatures. Which only leaves bigger questions. You're not recognizing the reader, or if the reader is going to be satisfied with what you've given.

Now despite all that, you also do a lack of describing the background. Especially from transition from oldhome to new world, the impact this world should have should be greater than just background scenes. This is why first person would benefit you greatly. so we can see what Noah sees, so we can understand how Noah sees this place. Having the third person narrative just makes it all that much more difficult as the narrative is telling us who he is, not Noah, especially not by his actions because you do more telling than showing.

Now we are at the point where Noah reaches, Balthazar entrusting his power to Noah felt just as forced and unnatural as Noah finding the box in the first place. Yes, we see a glimpse of Belthazar's life, but the emotions that came with it felt forced. That seemed like it should've been a chapter of its own. Noah's awe, pain, and horror, just didn't feel real to me.

Keep in mind, i stil have a lot of questions sucha s what are DOmacles in relation to your story since Eden and pandora's box have been altered. Another


on a side note: little instances where you try to really push the manga/anime feel or really giving tiny gestures that you may think are appealing to readers, but they make your story feel unoriginal.

Instances where Pandora would place her hand on her heart. another instance where Noah would do a random gesture such as suddenly act bashful and shy by looking down and kicking the ground as he asks something. And of course, scenes where Noah and Pandora are in sync with each other when they look at each other despite having little interaction and chemistry.

OK fine, maybe saying all this wont make you change a thing, but let me show you howit hurts your story.



Key issue #1: Not addressing who Noah is in the real world. telling rather than showing

Side-affectt: Basically makes him look typical. We want to know something interesting, but because we have absolutely nothing interesting to go on for Noah. When you tell someone what a character is like, its not enough for the person to believe them when the character does nothing in particular to follow that. So telling us is pointless.

Key issue #2: Making him encounter Pandora's box randomly

Side affect: This should be the obvious thing in the world. but if there is no reason behind his encounter with the box. Why should anything moving forward have any meaning? None of it will feel interesting if its all one giant hypothetical "what if he didn't look into the tree" which begs the question as well "How come he foudn it now after all this time".


Key issue #3: Ignoring the bigger questions. Asking only the questions you want to ask.

Side affect: because you are actively answering questions it sounds like you are keeping in mind of telling a proper story. but because you are not asking the most important questions or recognizing it in the story. Readers will think you are misunderstanding them completely. When in reality you recognize these questions, you just refuse to acknowledge how necessary it is to recognize them in the first chapter.




OVERALL SIDE-EFFECT:
with all this combined, your story is so detached. not only from the main character and the pacing, but what you choose to reveal and what you hold valuable. Precursors aren't mention. what is mentioned is archivist, which holds no meaning so far. The other is domacles, which again holds no meaning so far. a lot of things your introducing not giving readers a clear idea of what this is about.


Your story is not coherent.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 04:47:48 PM by Lorenx1 »
Stop playing victim....you know what you did.

Offline NO1SY

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Re: Eden Husk // Apocalypse Archive
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2015, 05:19:33 PM »
Well you'll be happy to know it's probably all going out the window so you can simmer down now Loren. But yes you are right, I am not a great writer so I'll keep those things in mind next time. Especially the description part, I want to keep building vivid pictures and it's something easy to gloss over when just trying to tell the story.

You do read into some things very weirdly though... for instance I wasn't thinking about manga/anime at all when I had Pandora put her hands to her heart... I just try to think of realistic gestures for the characters in relation to what they are saying and expressing... so again... not quite sure what you are imagining there...

I became less happy with the Pandora's Box setting and I wasn't happy with the reasoning I was writing behind Noah's characterisation after continuing to write... So now I want to do a complete re-think of the story I am going to tell and the kind of character Noah is.

Please don't spell my characters' names wrong though! It's Balthazar and Damocles. Balthazar the Fury is the precursor being representing rage, war and fire. Damocles is the name of his sword.

The names themselves don't mean much in the context of my ideas, but they are biblical and mythological in origin. Balthazar was an Arabian Scholar and one of the three wise men that visited Jesus in the bible story. Damocles is a figure from a moral anecdote, who had a sword hung above his head by a single hair from the tail of a horse after a king offered to switch places with him. So the names don't hold any relevant meaning, however in pop. culture they have been used a lot to represent similar things, such as the Human race's god of war in GW2, who is called Balthazar, and in the film The Sorcerer's Apprentice - Nick Cage's Character, who was a magician that was often depicted with a sword and fighting.

Alongside Balthazar the Fury I also have Eir the Betrayal, Proxy the Material and Alekos the Envy.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 05:35:07 PM by NO1SEY »

Offline Lumaria

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Re: Eden Husk // Apocalypse Archive
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2015, 05:46:46 PM »
But do you understand what the problem was?

How coherent was chapter 1. Answering those questions is good. But the grittier questions.


What do you recognize as an issue? What you dont. I just want to know in case you misunderstood.
Stop playing victim....you know what you did.