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Author Topic: "Enchiridion" Development Thread  (Read 3376 times)

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Offline MK

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Re: "Enchiridion" Development Thread
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2014, 02:17:10 AM »
I tried to type up the first few pages of chapter 1 for you, tell me how it is.  If you like it I could try finishing up the chapter like this although your chapter seems pretty short so you might need more info.  This approach is a bit different from how most authors I have been helping start so here it goes:

(naming it MC for main character since you didn't tell me the name)
Spoiler
This approach is a bit different from how most authors I have been helping start so here it goes

(naming it MC for main character since you didn't tell me the name)
Page 1
Panel 1:
-Actually a panel-less profile (side) view of the MC leaning against the edge of the page (or where the borders would be, if that doesn't make sense then just draw a wall behind her)
 -Maybe reading a book (to seem like she is waiting)
-This will take up half the page
-In the background there would be a description of the character:
Name
Age
Occupation
Blood type (a lot of manga actually states this but you don't have to)

Panel 2:
-This should take up the rest of the page (Note: the foot of panel 1 should overlap a little on top of this panel)
-MC's  friend should be on the left waving and running up the MC (on the right)
 -Friend should say "Hey there MC!"
-If the friend will be used later on then have a text box of the character:
Name
Age
Occupation
Blood type (a lot of manga actually states this but you don't have to)
 -Text box can be placed as you like but usually the bottom works good


Page 2
Panel 1:
-This should be half a strip at the top
-Front view of MC's face (could use dark shadings to represent something they aren't supposed to talk about)
-MC asks "So is there anything new?"

Panel 2:
-Completes strip with panel 1
-Choose your view (2/3 or 3/4 for thinking, profile with head tiled down for darker feeling)
-Friend says (2 options)
 1."Not supposed to tell you ... but... the kingdoms government found a temple and are getting a force to reclaim it... don't tell anyone though"
 2."Well I heard from other troops that they are preparing to reclaim a temple they discovered..."
-First one is that she knows it but it is supposed to be top secret (not secret anymore lol) while the second one matches your description and it is a rumor spreading around

Panel 3:
-This panel should take up the rest of the page
-View looking down upon MC and her friend (like in an alley)
-MC asks "Do you know where it is?"
-Friend says "Should be near (name a place that doesn't exist but sounds cool)"
-MC replies "Thank you (Friend's name)"
-MC thinks "The troops are going to need time to assemble so I should be able to get there before they seal off the ruins"
 -Thought bubble can be placed at the very bottom
-You need to be able to place these speech bubbles in a way that makes sense and you read them in order without confusion


Page 3/4
-This is a perfect place to put a 2 page spread of the ruins and the surrounding area (although it is optional)


Page 5
Panel 1:
-Simple text box at the top says "After 2 weeks of traveling..."

Panel 2:
-This panel should be a strip that comes down only to a third of the page (With panel 1 on top
-Scene of MC walking down a road
-MC thinks "Well it seems I beat the knights here..."

Panel 3:
-This panel almost takes up the rest of the page
-Has engravings on a wall (make up some random stuff unless you are actually going to have her solve this) with MC having her back turned to the camera
-MC says "Interesting"

Panel 4:
-Thin strip at the very bottom
-Completely black except for some shining eye (you said red but only color it if you decide to go all color)
 -This is a page-turner suspense, makes the reader wonder "Is she going to be attacked???"


Page 6:
Panel 1:
-A thin half a strip at the top (this panel is on top of panel 2)
-A small animal scurrying along behind a corner

Panel 2:
-Little less than half a page long
-MC trying to chase the small animal around the corner

Panel 3:
-Thin strip
-MC's eyes in shock

Panel 4:
-Takes up the rest of the page
-Close up on an ancient golem's foot
-Another page turner suspense (in a book page 5 wouldn't be a suspenseful page turner because you would read pages 5/6 together but online they both would give suspense to the reader)


Page 7
Panel 1:
-This takes up a full page
-Worms eye (from the ground looking up) view of the whole ancient golem (you never specified how tall it is)
 -The worm's eye view will emphasize the size of the golem (feet will look like they are popping out at the reader)
 -If the golem is big then show in comparison to MC (MC's back to camera looking up at the golem), if it is near the same height as MC then just have the golem and leave MC out of it.  Also if you leave out MC you will have more focus on the golem
If you have any questions please ask them
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Offline darlingGrim

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Re: "Enchiridion" Development Thread
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2014, 02:37:31 AM »
I tried to type up the first few pages of chapter 1 for you, tell me how it is.  If you like it I could try finishing up the chapter like this although your chapter seems pretty short so you might need more info.  This approach is a bit different from how most authors I have been helping start so here it goes:

(naming it MC for main character since you didn't tell me the name)
Spoiler
This approach is a bit different from how most authors I have been helping start so here it goes

(naming it MC for main character since you didn't tell me the name)
Page 1
Panel 1:
-Actually a panel-less profile (side) view of the MC leaning against the edge of the page (or where the borders would be, if that doesn't make sense then just draw a wall behind her)
 -Maybe reading a book (to seem like she is waiting)
-This will take up half the page
-In the background there would be a description of the character:
Name
Age
Occupation
Blood type (a lot of manga actually states this but you don't have to)

Panel 2:
-This should take up the rest of the page (Note: the foot of panel 1 should overlap a little on top of this panel)
-MC's  friend should be on the left waving and running up the MC (on the right)
 -Friend should say "Hey there MC!"
-If the friend will be used later on then have a text box of the character:
Name
Age
Occupation
Blood type (a lot of manga actually states this but you don't have to)
 -Text box can be placed as you like but usually the bottom works good


Page 2
Panel 1:
-This should be half a strip at the top
-Front view of MC's face (could use dark shadings to represent something they aren't supposed to talk about)
-MC asks "So is there anything new?"

Panel 2:
-Completes strip with panel 1
-Choose your view (2/3 or 3/4 for thinking, profile with head tiled down for darker feeling)
-Friend says (2 options)
 1."Not supposed to tell you ... but... the kingdoms government found a temple and are getting a force to reclaim it... don't tell anyone though"
 2."Well I heard from other troops that they are preparing to reclaim a temple they discovered..."
-First one is that she knows it but it is supposed to be top secret (not secret anymore lol) while the second one matches your description and it is a rumor spreading around

Panel 3:
-This panel should take up the rest of the page
-View looking down upon MC and her friend (like in an alley)
-MC asks "Do you know where it is?"
-Friend says "Should be near (name a place that doesn't exist but sounds cool)"
-MC replies "Thank you (Friend's name)"
-MC thinks "The troops are going to need time to assemble so I should be able to get there before they seal off the ruins"
 -Thought bubble can be placed at the very bottom
-You need to be able to place these speech bubbles in a way that makes sense and you read them in order without confusion


Page 3/4
-This is a perfect place to put a 2 page spread of the ruins and the surrounding area (although it is optional)


Page 5
Panel 1:
-Simple text box at the top says "After 2 weeks of traveling..."

Panel 2:
-This panel should be a strip that comes down only to a third of the page (With panel 1 on top
-Scene of MC walking down a road
-MC thinks "Well it seems I beat the knights here..."

Panel 3:
-This panel almost takes up the rest of the page
-Has engravings on a wall (make up some random stuff unless you are actually going to have her solve this) with MC having her back turned to the camera
-MC says "Interesting"

Panel 4:
-Thin strip at the very bottom
-Completely black except for some shining eye (you said red but only color it if you decide to go all color)
 -This is a page-turner suspense, makes the reader wonder "Is she going to be attacked???"


Page 6:
Panel 1:
-A thin half a strip at the top (this panel is on top of panel 2)
-A small animal scurrying along behind a corner

Panel 2:
-Little less than half a page long
-MC trying to chase the small animal around the corner

Panel 3:
-Thin strip
-MC's eyes in shock

Panel 4:
-Takes up the rest of the page
-Close up on an ancient golem's foot
-Another page turner suspense (in a book page 5 wouldn't be a suspenseful page turner because you would read pages 5/6 together but online they both would give suspense to the reader)


Page 7
Panel 1:
-This takes up a full page
-Worms eye (from the ground looking up) view of the whole ancient golem (you never specified how tall it is)
 -The worm's eye view will emphasize the size of the golem (feet will look like they are popping out at the reader)
 -If the golem is big then show in comparison to MC (MC's back to camera looking up at the golem), if it is near the same height as MC then just have the golem and leave MC out of it.  Also if you leave out MC you will have more focus on the golem
If you have any questions please ask them

Oh nice! Thank you! I'm probably going to move some of what happens around. I really like the introduction for the MC. I'll probably use it for a different character though. I wanted her introduction to be at the ruins (and the convo with her friend a slight/semi flashback -just her thinking to herself). I've already roughed out her intro.

I also like that you planned the suspenseful bits.

I've haven't really seen storyboarding done like this (I've gotten use to just drawing it), but I like it. I feel really inspired now~

Offline MK

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Re: "Enchiridion" Development Thread
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2014, 02:50:14 AM »
I was a bit confused at first because you had a description of why everything was going on and then straight into dialogue.  I mainly expanded on what you had and made the description into actual panels instead of skipping them or having a plain page of just explaining the setting

Also I like to type out the storyboard because it can cause confusion right to left or left to right and it makes it so the artist has a little more flexibility in moving stuff around to fit better
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Offline darlingGrim

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Re: "Enchiridion" Development Thread
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2014, 02:15:54 PM »
Yeah, I kind of just skipped to the interesting bits. I have her thinking to herself and talking outloud a bit I just didn't write it down. I'm not very good at mentioning little details.

I honeslty shouldn't be drawing the manuscrip till I have more of the story planned out but I already know what I want to happen in chapter 1 so I'm jumping the gun a bit. ;>.>

I have 4-5 roughed out. I'll probably redo the temple. I really like the look of Veera Narayana Temple (I found it using google images). I'll look up more temples later and revision my temple. I just really love the pole in front of the entrance. Also, perspective things need to change.
Spoiler

Offline GingerStark

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Re: "Enchiridion" Development Thread
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2014, 02:23:30 PM »
Damn, this artwork is so good and storyboarded... I know very few people on the forums who are actually at this level  :o It's gonna be tough finding top level advice on this  :hmm:

Good job though :D It obviously has had some good thought and skill put into it

Offline darlingGrim

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Re: "Enchiridion" Development Thread
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2014, 03:02:38 PM »
Damn, this artwork is so good and storyboarded... I know very few people on the forums who are actually at this level  :o It's gonna be tough finding top level advice on this  :hmm:

Good job though :D It obviously has had some good thought and skill put into it

Thank you ////
Although I only know how I want chapter 1 to go. I don't know how to continue it after I get the draft for chapter 1 done.

Offline GingerStark

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Re: "Enchiridion" Development Thread
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2014, 03:10:31 PM »
Hmmm  :hmm:

When I have a spare moment, I'll look deeper and try to provide some more help :D

Offline Lumaria

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Re: "Enchiridion" Development Thread
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2014, 01:58:56 AM »
The problem isn't that its cliche....its that you're trying to create a really typical, not-so-unique world.

The typical world has "gods", has "magic" has "countries/nations" all wrapped in one. But this is what all series have at one point. What makes them unique is making them have a focus...For Fullmetal Alchemist the magic was "Alchemy" and even though religion was an aesthetic theme, the philosophy of Alchemy and the Alchemy itself was the main theme of the series. As the series progressed it focused even more on "God".

For Naruto it was the same, "chakra" was what made the world of Naruto and the story go round. This time "nations" was a little more important but it slowly moved to "Gods" which i believe did a vague shift that should've taken more time to develop.

Now, in your series you already adding "alchemy" but it appears the "Gods" are the spotlight, which makes it really difficult to get a vision of what the story is. Normally "magic" then "nations" is a good formula because it really develops the world gradually without being too intrusive.

Stop playing victim....you know what you did.

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Re: "Enchiridion" Development Thread
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2014, 02:32:24 AM »
The problem isn't that its cliche....its that you're trying to create a really typical, not-so-unique world.

The typical world has "gods", has "magic" has "countries/nations" all wrapped in one. But this is what all series have at one point. What makes them unique is making them have a focus...For Fullmetal Alchemist the magic was "Alchemy" and even though religion was an aesthetic theme, the philosophy of Alchemy and the Alchemy itself was the main theme of the series. As the series progressed it focused even more on "God".

For Naruto it was the same, "chakra" was what made the world of Naruto and the story go round. This time "nations" was a little more important but it slowly moved to "Gods" which i believe did a vague shift that should've taken more time to develop.

Now, in your series you already adding "alchemy" but it appears the "Gods" are the spotlight, which makes it really difficult to get a vision of what the story is. Normally "magic" then "nations" is a good formula because it really develops the world gradually without being too intrusive.

Oh, I've never thought of it like that. Let's see what I can come up with.

I'm going to go ahead and lay what I've been keeping to myself on the table. Can you tell me what you think?
----

Spoiler
Hm, I've given it a bit of thought. The two gods aren't really a major component. They just want to play games. They still set the story in motion but really I can just pull them out. Even though they are immortal I want won of them to mention at the end that they want to try dying once (after getting yelled at by the MC). I still really like them though.

Anyway, a problem I've been having is finding out what the gods game is. The orbs in the temples (I really love rpg's) are actually the gods energy that they continually concentrated to create semi-immortal beings. Basically the beast  (who I really need to name). They are allowed a solid form of the energy the pull from the orb. However if they pull to much the orb pulls back. It's a two way street. If the orb breaks the beast dies, if the beast touches the orb his energy (himself) is absorbed. Basically he can't touch or break it or be too far away from it. The semi-immortal part comes in in the fact he will be reformed. If he touches it or gets too far away he will be reformed immediately, if he breaks it it'll take a few years to return as the orb has to absorb energy to reform itself then him. However when he reforms he loses memories and part of his previous identity. He won't remember a lot of the emotions or likes and dislike he had. He's reformed so many times at this point he no longer remembers why he is in the temple or what his name is.

Now that that's explained... I had considered that the game be which species can collect all the orbs (gods children) first and bring them to gods temple (which I had hoped to be in the foundation of the Human species kingdom). I haven't mentioned it before but I had wanted the mom of the MC to be one of the main villains. She works in the castle (which already has 2 of the obs). I wanted her to be a cruel but morally ambiguous character. The other "humanesc" species has one orb (they also have their own kingdom and are the ones that do alchemy/magic). Obviously both of the species/races are at odds with each other.

Yes, the MC also works for the kingdom, but she's so low on the totem pole she isn't actually in the kingdom. She does field work and researches near the borders of uncharted territories. She here's from her friend in the knights as they are passing through that they are going for reinforcements to reclaim another temple. I imagine when the orb is missing they will assume the other race took it before them. I think the human kingdom should have already deciphered the meaning of the temples (based on old texts) and be after the orbs to get their prize. They of course keep it a secret very well. 
---
Is this a bit better? I still don't know how I can motivate the MC to go traversing about the world.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 02:50:22 AM by darlingGrim »

Offline Lumaria

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Re: "Enchiridion" Development Thread
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2014, 02:43:51 AM »
Your story is heavily game oriented, its an element thats trying to accomplish something, but do you need it to be a game to accomplish it?
Stop playing victim....you know what you did.

Offline darlingGrim

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Re: "Enchiridion" Development Thread
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2014, 02:53:28 AM »
Your story is heavily game oriented, its an element thats trying to accomplish something, but do you need it to be a game to accomplish it?

(I do like how you worded that it felt very mystic although I'm not sure how to answer it...)

I blame the fact that the only games I like are RPG's.

I hope I don't need it to be a game to accomplish it. That would be a pain. I love games but I don't have the resources to create such a complex thing.

Do you think I should make it less game like? I don't know how I would do that. I feel like it lies with what my character wants. Hell, who even is my main character. All I really know is she's a relatively carefree (and occasionally selfish) girl that likes exploring and feels connected to the book of ancient text and ruins he mother left her.
I want the readers to find her fun and brave. I modeled her off of shonen hero's because I want her to inspire the audience.

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Re: "Enchiridion" Development Thread
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2014, 03:06:08 AM »
i believe this game design is truly hurting you and your perspective of writing a story. for one, you have to see that RPG design stories are more "restricting" than anything else. RPGs are designed so that irrelevant NPCs make the story unfold in their own way while not having to make the main story focus too much on the details.

You wont have that luxury in a manga to reveal the smaller but important details that way. I also enjoy RPGs...but the ideal RPG i always recommend people to take example of is "Chrono Trigger" because it is not organized like a typical RPG. The party can combine attacks, and its also designed in a way where the pattern isn't completely predictable. Its an RPG heavily story oriented.
Stop playing victim....you know what you did.

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Re: "Enchiridion" Development Thread
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2014, 03:20:52 AM »
Spoiler
i believe this game design is truly hurting you and your perspective of writing a story. for one, you have to see that RPG design stories are more "restricting" than anything else. RPGs are designed so that irrelevant NPCs make the story unfold in their own way while not having to make the main story focus too much on the details.

You wont have that luxury in a manga to reveal the smaller but important details that way. I also enjoy RPGs...but the ideal RPG i always recommend people to take example of is "Chrono Trigger" because it is not organized like a typical RPG. The party can combine attacks, and its also designed in a way where the pattern isn't completely predictable. Its an RPG heavily story oriented. [/spoler]
Hmm. Well, I think you're right. I've never written anything before. I think one problem with RPG based manga is  that it requires outside events to fuel the story and doesn't rely on the MC moving the story. I think Mark Crilley called it a static main character or something.  I should probably read something on plot development before trying to move the story farther.

I played Chrono Trigger a long time ago, but I never went out of my way to get all the endings.

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Re: "Enchiridion" Development Thread
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2014, 03:22:33 AM »
its not about the endings, but how the story progressed.
Stop playing victim....you know what you did.

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Re: "Enchiridion" Development Thread
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2014, 06:23:17 PM »
I did some brain storming over the break and I think I've thought of a way to continue the story. I still need to work on it, but it's starting to feel more fleshed out.

I've also drafted out pages 6-7, it's really rough but hopefully it's easy to tell what's going on. The small flashback pages are going to take two and a half pages so it should be done on page 8. Although, I'm not starting to question if I should put a flashback so early in the story. On one hand it makes it easier for the audience to understand her personality, on the other it takes away from the now. Hopefully the golem popping in soon will amp it up a bit. I'm thinking it'll show up on page 11.
Spoiler

It was surprisingly easy to come up with dialogue once I knew what I wanted to happen. I'm a bit shocked.