April 25, 2019, 08:44:23 AM


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break Room / What made you become an artist/writer?
« Last post by YoUr EyEs on April 24, 2019, 01:02:15 PM »
So here I am, rain outside and I slacking off again~

What exactly has made you starting to draw and/or writing?
Manga Art Gallery / Re: Attempts at hair and body work
« Last post by Rustee on April 24, 2019, 12:45:37 PM »
Decided to just go for it and do full body with clothes, a little rough, but hey.... gotta start somewhere.  Also, had some no show appointments at work so I played with this in paint and only able to use a mouse, not easy lol

Also, I messed up sizing when saving and its all distorted, and to color turned out weird  :noidea:

I know I can do a better job on the eyes too  >:(
Manga Art Gallery / Re: Attempts at hair and body work
« Last post by Rustee on April 24, 2019, 10:56:57 AM »
Thanks for the feeback!!  KeanFox thank you so much for lining that up, yeah I lost it on the horizon part when putting this together, but this does not discourage me at all, its a big help!!  I need to work on layers so I can line it up more proper.  And I see the floating/ distorted your talking about suuper-san.  I'm looking for a reference photo, something simple to practice, I will be trying your suggestion suuper-san :)
Manga Art Gallery / Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Last post by Ryan on April 24, 2019, 05:19:21 AM »
(What am I doing with my life making this post at 5am. . .

Well, I think I've put off giving you some serious feedback on your stuff for a while now. And seeing you sort of floundering made me decide to write this. I think it's important to allow people to make their mistakes and decisions, but I decided to give you my full, 100% critical perspective on what you've been doing).

Working like crazy still, I see.

I think you will benefit from picking the style of 2-3 artists that you want to draw like, and imitating them all the time. Even when you're drawing from imagination—you really try to become that person in totality. You try to understand them, their sensibilities, and why they draw the way they do.

Indecisiveness is really the enemy here for you. Don't think of it as what you want to do with your art. Think of it as who you aspire to. What you want to draw like.

But why should you pick?

Because you're indecisive, it's even more important that you pick.

To move forward to a higher level of skill, you need to dive deep into the realm of specifics. Specifics of character design, specifics of emotionality to drawing.

Communicating and illustrating specifics is what will bring you skill. Your sketches are very general, and hard to read due to the technique you're using. The line-weight you are using is letting you get away with not resolving your sketches.

Get rid of the pressure-sensitivity. Draw with a uniform line thickness that is easy to see, and is exact to the artists you pick to imitate. If the drawing isn't resolved, you don't move on to the next one.

Most likely, this will lead you down the path of disappointment and overwhelm.

Knowing precisely how sucky we are can be frustrating—and trying to make art at the level of somebody you look up to is one of the fastest tracks towards frustration.

But, you need to break away from your shackles. The shackles of generalism.

Generalism prevents us from diving deep. It slows the progress of your art because there's too many generalities to learn.

Generalities allow us to stay confused, not knowing how things really are.

Generalities keep us from expressing things to our highest ability.

Generalism is learning to draw 10 different types of coats versus looking into the shape and specifics of the garmet lines.

Generalities is learning to draw 10 different characters but only being able to draw one iconic expression for each.

Specifics is learning all the different ways one hairstyle can be drawn. Flowing in the air while running, under water, or falling down a height.

Specifics is learning how one specific expression is drawn in various perspectives.

Specifics is learning the theories and patterns behind folds.

Specifics is learning to draw all the expressions for a specific character.

Specifics is learning to convey an emotion or mood with a drawing.

Specifics are everything, and they're everywhere. Skilled artists are good with specifics. They can convey many things, specifically, with their drawings.

Imitate the artists you pick. Copy them. When your knowledge is insufficient to draw from imagination, study the basics and the specifics of the subject matter. Use them as a compass to guide your practice of the specifics.

Speed shouldn't be trained for. Make sure you don't worry about it. I'm being serious. Speed comes from successfully drawing what is basically the same visual information many times over. Speed comes from confidence and experience, something that come from knowing what specifically you're doing. When it's ready to be drawn fast it will happen on its own, because the mind is just good at consolidating and optimizing memories like that.

If you don't know the specifics for the drawing, it doesn't matter how much practice you have with your sketching workflow, it will take longer to make a good drawing every single time.

What you become frustrated with, just get specific with it. Seriously. Most important thing you can do. Deep dive and get specific with it. Study it, understand it. Make it not a problem anymore.

If you're frustrated with something, chances are it's because it's showing up a lot in your drawings. Perfect. Get specific with it. It's the most high value activity you can do, because it means you'll naturally get repetition for what you learn. Don't get specific on something you're never going to draw again—this is the worst thing you can do, because you're going to forget it due to the lack of repetition.

So, please, get specific. Art isn't weightlifting, nor is it like exercise. You don't progress based off total reps or total time spent. You progress based off how many specific skills you've approached with the mindset of acquiring, of no longer being a problem. Total reps or time spent is only indirectly related to your progress.

Being specific is hard. It takes more effort. It's hard to plan and make it efficient. It's messy. But messy is good. Go be messy.

General Discussion / Re: Opinions of Collabs?
« Last post by JackOfArtAndProse on April 24, 2019, 04:23:59 AM »
Yeah, definitely start small. It's hard to create a long manga if you can't even create something small succesfully and on-demand(emphasis on on-demand). A manga artist who wants to both write and draw their stories would need to learn about panelling, plotting and how to write banter... And if you are a writer, you'd STILL need to learn how to do all these three, seeing as some manga artists require the writer to direct the panel flow and how things work out on the page.

Plus, doing short collabs helps you to learn how to deal with people. You also learn how to recognize slightly less principled collaborators and sometimes even how to manage a project. These are useful skills for any kind of long webcomic/webtoon/manga project, nevermind a short collaboration.
General Discussion / Re: Interesting Revelations by getting a job offer
« Last post by JackOfArtAndProse on April 24, 2019, 04:15:04 AM »
Yeah, I've found the whole "I wake up one day and know what to do"-thing to be very true. We oftentimes underestimate our unconsciousness and its workings - in fact, I think that less than 50% of our learning is conscious(and I'm HEAVILY overexaggerating towards consciousness here). I think that we need to respect our daily art/writing practice more, since we never know when we finally reach "the day" - and until then, we struggle.

And then we realize that there's even more depth to the discipline... XD
General Discussion / Re: From Fun to Fundamentals to Not-so-Fun-Anymore
« Last post by JackOfArtAndProse on April 24, 2019, 04:08:09 AM »
Ah, I was using the word "cliche" in the storytelling sense, and was using a metaphor. I was not calling fundamentals cliche art advice.
General Discussion / Re: From Fun to Fundamentals to Not-so-Fun-Anymore
« Last post by Ryan on April 24, 2019, 03:04:43 AM »
This is an important topic. It's something I have struggled with understanding in the past, and am managing to get over now. Also, hello everybody ^_^.

In essence, theory won't make you better at drawing. And knowing what the fundamentals are won't help you much either. To make a comparison, knowing grammar rules won't make you speak a language well. The speed at which an experienced and skilled artist draws exceeds conscious thought of rules and patterns, similar to that of a native speaker of a verbal language.

Throughout western society, we deconstruct skills and try to make sense of them. It's, truly, in a sense, academic. Teachers cheerily push concepts like "push the darks" because it is easy to objectively evaluate art in such a manner. However, it is completely ignorant of art that is beautiful with low-contrast values.

The usefulness of fundamentals is, in my opinion, quite limited to its ability to give names to parts of images. Such is the same with learning language, the parts of speech; being able to recognize what is a noun, verb, adjective, or particle is good. Such ability to comprehend the parts of language helps speed up the assimilation of natural grammar.

With images, you have the elements: shape, edges, line, depth, value, texture, color, saturation, hue. They just exist; they are. They existed even before you know what their names were. The patterning of the elements leads to principles: rhythm, variety, chaos, etc.

And the usefulness stops there, similar to the ability to recognize the parts of speech in a language. Knowing what the parts of speech are is hardly the key to making you a great speaker of language. So we make up silly grammar rules with a gazillion exceptions and weird cases, that in the end no real speaker of a language know. But we think the learner would benefit from knowing the rules ; (pro tip: it just leads them astray and make speaking more difficult and frustrating). Theory encourages invention of the wrong sort, the idea that if you stick to the theories you would end up with something good. However, it encourages near-nearsightedness and the foolhardy conclusion that if you stick to the theories you are conscious of, you will have perfect and beautiful speech. You end up, really, speaking in a language that nobody actually speaks...using words that don't go together.

In drawing there are a million invisible obstacles that no theory could ever articulate well, which can never be captured. They seem obvious to the highly skilled artists that "those two things just don't go together." However, if you asked them why they would have trouble to tell you (in most cases). Just as a skilled speaker of a language doesn't know why two words are not used to express a certain concept, which could be traced back to a grammar rule that the grammarians are conscious of.

What to do about this? Lay the theory aside. Let the fundamentals do what they can do, in its own charming and limited way. Accept things the way they are. Copy art you love. Draw the art you love. If you don't know what you love, follow your ambitions and copy your ambitions, no matter how cheesy or stupid they are. Drawing is a collectively held language. Style is collectively held. Someone out there is using the same stylistic conventions, the same compositional patterns that you are. Someone out there speaks a language in just the way you do. Your original touch is a small component. It will peer through.

Dare to be derivative. Separate from your frustration and allow yourself to do things that are just the right amount of interesting and engaging to you. Let your output follow your input. Your input, what you look at, what you copy, what you enjoy observing, whether it's real life or others' drawings, should have considerable impact on your artistic output. Input the same kind of information, over the period of months, okay. This isn't some hardcore repetition I'm talking about. I'm talking about over a very lengthy period of time, you come back to the same input, the same kinds of input (and do consider expanding what you input and output ;)). It's okay. Dare to do things that are comfortable, as long as you aren't bored. If you want to trace, trace. Just do whatever the hell you want as long as you're putting your eyes in front of art and images and you're not living within a wonderland of theory.

Borrow others' voices. Stand on the shoulder of giants. Everything you could ever ask for is already out there. All of the artwork, the visuals of our worldly existence, hold all of the secret sauce. All you need to do is to look, to continually draw, and allow your being to slowly be invaded by something greater than yourself. Because, in my understanding, there is no such thing as a rational reason as for why improvement in art occurs. I don't believe it can be explained with a phrase such as "I improved at art because I did a, b, and c." But, I do believe improvement cannot occur without the inputting and outputting of art. A truth that was inspired upon by the input-learning method for learning languages. That input of language is the absolute driver of assimilation of language and being able to speak well. And, I think, what we want to do as visual artists, as illustrators, mangaka, or comic artists, is to be able to speak in a beautifully authentic, true-to-our-genre fashion, yet minutely original and true-to-ourselves, in the way that we can't stop ourselves from being. Discovering our unique place within a genre, and having it come effortlessly. During all that copying, inputting and outputting, you will be discovering yourself. Because you make the choice of what you input, of who you copy, or whatever way you want to interpret this wall of mess. Eventually, you will find a way to fit it all together in a way that only you can. Our memories, they are merely flimsy reconstructions of our past. Because it is you that will be reconstructing your output, it is yours and belongs to you no matter how many stylistic conventions you use that can be traced back to a collectively used style, or individual artists.

This is no way to improve fast. But there is no way to improve fast. Fast improvement is artificial, limited. However, this philosophy I have elaborated on depth here also isn't difficult either. Reject boredom, and reject chronic frustration. Embrace fun, enjoyment, and stress-free, low-risk drawing. Fun easily trickles down to boredom because of fear of failure. You have to expand ever so slowly, whatever that means to you. Staying still can be dangerous. Looking at art consistently is a great way to insure you are sparked by the desire to expand your artistic reach whenever boredom starts to develop.

NOTE: This post is not directed to anybody in particular, but perhaps to individuals that are similar to how I used to be. To those who internally place too much emphasis on theory and having things spelled out for them in terms of 'why' this and 'why' that, as I once did. And to those with tendencies to spend too much time trying to invent their art. To those who wallow in a great deep sea of confusion, not knowing how to compose their drawings...or even what they want to draw, or how to make engaging drawings. It's better to have wholesome generic drawings, than empty unique drawings. This is all about language, it's communication. No one is going to get down on you for saying what somebody, and what everybody, is saying. Just go for it and be free.

Basically, you're saying that fundamentals are like cliches - even if you know what they are, you don't necessarily know how to apply the knowledge. One's understanding of a cliche needs to be instinctual for it to be of any use - and in doing so, the cliche is transformed into something that works, rather than being a dead cog in a narrative.

Fundamentals aren't like cliches, in the sense that fundamentals are really the precursor of cliches. Getting fundamentals confused with cliche art advice, however, will lead to something that looks like poorly using literary cliches.

Knowing how to think about what you see visually in a manga, or art, is the important part about fundamentals. Not so much dictating how to draw. Fundamentals are a shortcut that grants you the ability to see, and the ability to talk about what you see. At the end of the day, how you draw is defined by how you want to draw, which is defined by what you like (not what other people say is how you should draw).

Fundamentals are the building blocks of what builds up a cliche, or really, style. The problem is when we see fundamentals and cliche art advice as synonymous. Every art style, every art purpose has a different function and aesthetic. The fundamental building blocks differ between art styles and purposes.

The cure, then, to drawings that don't know what they want to be, is to stop taking advice from others and to take advice from the art you want to make. Advice about how to draw in the end should come from what you've judged personally, with your own eyes, to be favorable to you. You view the art, you take note of how the elements are. Is it low contrast, or is it high contrast? What colors does it use? Are the lines thick or thin? Think about why those elements are the way they are, and think about how it relates to the artist's messages or intentions of their work.

Manga Art Gallery / Re: Walter's Gallery
« Last post by suuper-san on April 24, 2019, 02:14:31 AM »
looks great! you got the details on the clothes nicely.

awesome, I'll be looking forward to those comics!
Manga Art Gallery / Re: boss art
« Last post by suuper-san on April 24, 2019, 02:11:04 AM »
I'ts nice when the signature is sort of hidden in a work, it keeps the work looking clean but you still have your name on it somewhere. The background artist I recently posted links to actually does this with putting his website address in his artworks, and it's amazing how well and beautifully it fits into the scene.

haha I too have a spare cheap tablet for backup. good job I never have had to use it properly because it's super cheap haha

great coloured pieces and I love the eyes and hair on both.
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