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Messages - Lumaria

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31
When it comes to legends/myths in manga, the legend is first broken down to a very very basic form. Not too much detail but just enough to use your imagination. Then as the story progresses, more important details can be brought up.

Overall, Celestia appeared a little more fairy like than goddess like. The creatures killing eachother appeared a little more literal. These are areas where you can make it a little more on the vague side and only show representations so that the reader and the people in your story see the legend as a "legend"

32
Develop Your Story / Re: Amnesia: Ronan's Tale (Tentative Title)
« on: August 01, 2015, 01:51:14 PM »
If I were making the chapters longer, then it would definitely be spoiled in chapter 1. But I am purposely sticking to short chapters, in MS Word, I'm trying not to go much further than the 1 page limit. I think in chapter 1 I came close to 2 pages, but that was the longest. My reason for taking this approach is because I'm doing an experiment with my writing. As opposed to sitting down in front of my computer and saying "Ok, I'm going to sit down and bang out 8 pages worth of content on MS Word." I'm opting to write for the moment, and post it. Like bite-sized reading samples. Perhaps what I could do is instead of labeling chapter 1, 2, 3... I can do 1.1, 1.2, 1.3... that way it's still evident that this is chapter 1 that is taking place (in terms of content introduced)

Beside the point that the story does indeed start off a little off. This is barely a story about Amnesia. The character lacks 4 emotions (and rudeness is not an emotion, its a form of action). And suddenly claims hes his guide  just came out of nowhere.

So theres the awkwardness of bluntly asking questions because hes an amnesiac and bluntly telling Cazo the situation because hes not. Being aware of himself is entirely different from actually having the knowledge.

You shouldnt have to spoil a story in order for it to feel natural. In which case, Ronan is a very awkward character. It would be best seeing the entire story based on Cazo's point of view as we would get more information out of gim than on Ronan. Or at least recognize this awkwardness through thoughts and opinions so that it doesnt come off as bad writing

33
Develop Your Story / Re: FNO
« on: August 01, 2015, 01:34:05 PM »
My rendition is only for demonstration purposes. Most of it needed to add new information. Half of this chapter is completely original by me. The other half is major changes to show how a consistent and understandable character.

Keep in mind, i wrote this wothin 10 minutes with little time to revise. Imagine how much i couldve accomplished if i actually tried to make a legitimate chapter.

Now my rendition shows more......Lord Kesashi is suffering with what SwordHero has been suffering. Sure at first the concept was flawed (it still might be, considering he can never make Tara easy to grasp). But he continues to try to keep something that isnt working.

SwordHero continues to try to write a story about a japanese boy and an american girl. The idea isnt bad but wants characters as cliche and basic as possible, leading to rushed story. Whenever we told him areas to expand, he would instead reinvent the story with the exact same flaws. For Lord Kesashi, reinventing the concept may be more necessary, but he hasnt done it in the way that will benefit the reader in understanding.

Lord Kesashi knows how expendable the series is.....Lord Kesashi should know that if those aspects are so expendable, he should really look deep into what absolutely has to stay.

The idea of classes determined by personality is interesting, however it doesnt make sense to have in a game that is practically  basedon another concept. Your MMO idea falls apart when you start putting in gameplay aspects such as reversals.

Tara suffers greatly, everytime you wrote about her she is unappealing. Every time. Weve explained to you countless times how to qrite a good character, and each time you make a confusion, didficult to understand character.

34
Develop Your Story / Re: Amnesia: Ronan's Tale (Tentative Title)
« on: August 01, 2015, 04:18:36 AM »
To me Ronan appears as this overly glorified character. That despite being nesiac hes anything but. And the other charactwr speaks frantically but doesnt say anything Cazo is clueless at all. Ronan being overly aware of everything that doeant pertain to his memory is exactly what hurts the situation.

If you have to spoil the story to make it understandable then spoil it in chapter 1, otherwise, whats the point of awkward dialogue with little to no understanding?

35
Develop Your Story / Re: FNO
« on: August 01, 2015, 03:55:36 AM »
This is the progress so far youve done in the series....you originally wanted to make a story about a character who controlled to avatars at once while being trapped in the game. All while finding out who is keeping them there. You tried to excuse it by saying it was all coding but left very dissatisfying answers....

Your second version seems to be of Tara instead being a single player, but still trying to make her into two completely characters. You are trying to make a game with a very generic background (basically its an mmorpg about capture the flag with nations), but with an aspect that doesnt mix well with the generic side. Its an mmo that some how reads a players personality and grants them a class.

You later revised to complete amnesia but still suffer from laying the foundation for your story.  So it tells me something...that FNO as an MMORPG is 100% expendable, you can switch ideas around and around no matter what. But your main goal is to make a character, Tara personality affected by the game. And your approach so far has been jarring. Amnesia isnt a bad way to go, but other elements such as class dictating personality. Each rendition, Tara has been difficult to grasp. She isnt someone anyone would want to understand because there is rushed writing, lack of consistency in characterization and appeal

Here is how i would write FNO:

CHAPTER I: (an example of good writing)

SCENE:
A ruined palace full of dead corpses. A woman is laying on the ground with broken armor. The name Tara appears above her head.

ACTION:
A male wearing a hood with the name "Olsin" walks toward Tara. Tara begins to slowly open her eyes.

DIALOGUE:
Olsin: Hello there. Are you done taking your nap?

Tara: W-who are you?

Olsin: Have you forgotten me already? Ill give you a hint, look above my head.

Tara: Olsin? Whats going on? I cant remember a single thing.

Olsin: You dont say....

ACTION:
Tara gets herself up.

DIALOGUE:
Tara: Tell me, where am I? And why am i in a place like this?  Why does your name appear above your head? 

Olsin: Wait...are you telling me you dont even remember where we are?

Tara: No... why is that such a shock?

Olsin: Because you're at the best place in the world. Youre in FNO.

Tara: FNO? Where is that?

Olsin: FNO stands for Fall of Nation Online. You are inside an MMORPG.

ACTION:
Tara's eyes widen and starts to look around.

DIALOGUE:
Tara: Im inside a video game...? But how...?

Olsin: A while back the game blocked us from logging out. Its hard to tell how long weve been here. Some of us dont mind though. Its the ultimate gaming experience for me.

Tara:So i'm a player?

Olsin: Correct.

Tara: And you are also a player?

Olsin: you could say that. Come follow me...

Tara: Where will you be taking me?

Olsin: trust me, ill explain on the way.

ACTION:
Olsin and Tara walk out of the ruined palace and into the woods. Tara notices fantasy themed enemies. A small non threatening enemy approaches Olsin and he slashes it with his sword.

DIALOGUE:
Olsin: what do you think of the enemies in the forest? Pretty cool looking, huh?

Tara: This is all so new to me....why cant i remember? ... Wait! Earlier you said i had forgotten you. Are we friends?

Olsin: why dont you pull up the menu. Just think about it and it should appear. Its ok if you dont get it the first time.

ACTION:
Tara squints her eyes and suddenly a virtual menu appears. Olsin's face looks amused.

Olsin (thinking): wow, she managed to find it on her first try despite having memory loss.

Tara: Oh it says im a ravager class...Ravager class uses dark elements to defeat enemies....and im at pevel 90. Is that high?

Olsin: Yes, its pretty high. But why dont you check your friends list.

Tara: It shows you are my only friend. And that youre a moderator.

Olsin: correct.

Tara: if youre a moderator, can you leave however you please despite you claiming we are trapped here?

Olsin: Fortunately not.

Tara (thinking): Fortunately?

Olsin: Weve been investigating on a way to get out.

Tara: We?

Olsin: Me and you, before you lost your memory. I think you were getting close to finding the answer and the person who trapped us here didnt want you finding out. Or at least thats what i theorize. Now we have to get your memory back. Lucky for you, i know just the way.

Tara: You do? How?

Olsin: First things first, we need to get you re-oriented. Ill have to teach you how to play FNO again. Which is why im taking you to a training guild. Hopefully they understand.

Tara: why wouldnt they understand?

Olsin: Oh thats right...you dont remember. You see, you are actually quite infamous.

Tara: Really!? Me? Infamous? What did i do that made me so infamous.

Olsin: hahahaha, its actually quite amusing seeing you without your memory. Thats fine, we will make them understand. Ill explain it all in due time.

ACTION:
Thhey both stop walking and arrive at a fortress with a symbol on the front gate. A black cat with bat wings looks over the two on a branch of a very tall pine tree.

SCENE:
A woman with horns watches from the cat with wing's perspective in a round orb. Anotheran is bowing behind jer as she watches.

DIALOGUE:
Woman: Do you have any news, Alex?

Alex: Yes, Lord Anastasia. Tara's memory has been successfully erased. However, it seemed that Olsin got to her just as we were moving in.

Lord Anastasia: That Olsin, always meddling into our affairs. We will have to keep a close eye on him. Strange...how did Olsin gain her trust so easily?



THINGS TO CONSIDER IN THIS RENDITION:

Tara is an amnesiac. She has memory loss. She may not be displaying a lot of personality, but what is being revealed is consistent. She is curious and asks questions naturally as any nesiac would want to know. Im sure i missed just a few, but theres enough for the reader to not overly question every piece.

In the previous rendition you want to make ot painfully obvious to the reader that Olsin has ulterior motives. But here i made it more hidden and discrete. The reason why is because the focus was on developing Tara first. Olsins ulterior motives may be obvious in another chapter. Making it obvious in chapter 1 may not be exactly necessary to have the plot move forward. But a "hint" was provided without making Olsin such an awkward character.


Another benefit is adding a long term goal and a short term goal. The goal i changed (for the sake of demonstration purposes only) was for Tara to regain her memory in order to find out what she discovered moments before. The goal may not always be in the first chapter but a goal should start to grow by chapter 1. But in order to  establish a long term goal, smaller steps are there. As you can see Tara needs to re-orient herself with the game. Which promises the reader that they will learn more about the game. This also helps the reader understand the flow of the story. This was just a taste, but my rendition already promises A) tara will search for the mysteries of why they are trapped as she was before B) Her own memories C) Tara will re learn the game mechanics.


36
Develop Your Story / Re: Amnesia: Ronan's Tale (Tentative Title)
« on: August 01, 2015, 03:00:51 AM »
Ive read it so far...but it feels like youre trying to sell me with words more than selling me with the events.

Which seems to try to excuse the awkward dialogue between two completely unfamiliar characters. The pacing for a character with amnesia seems to be odd and unrealistic.

The character thpught process just goes so fast, theres no reasoning behind it. Youre making him ask the right questions but we dont even know what led him to ask those questions. A story with amnesia shouldnt be taken lightly.


37
copy and paste the URL address

38
Develop Your Story / Re: FNO
« on: July 31, 2015, 01:56:11 AM »
A certain person doesn't know what a good story is.

The bigger problem is that Lord Kesashi, you try the exact same thing, and i'm not the only one who noticed it. If someone just wants to defend bad writing, then let them, but deep down, you should know what a good chapter looks like.

if you take the time to review and honestly look deep into the story.

Revise the chapter and tell me what exactly about Tara sounds the most natural?

EDIT:
When i say be more direct, i'm talking about characterization. Be upfront and clear to the readers how to introduce the characters, what qualities the reader needs to see, and make it PAINFULLY obvious, that this is the type of person you want the readers to see. 

Dont just add in one trait and then the next and expect there's a connection. if you're adding a trait, make it obvious not just once, but multiple times.

here's the big thing you are not understanding....


EDIT x2:

The reason people have been so hard on the prologue/chapter is because the 1st chapter/prologue sets the foundation for the entire series. if its not well-grounded, no matter how much you reveal later on to defend, it just wont come off as good writing. its going to come off as the writer making up permanent mistakes.

Its just like making a building. the first floor is the first chapter. you cannot make a bad 1st chapter, if the first chapter fails, all the floors on top (no matter how well made they are) fall down. I'm sure you have a good story, but A) you haven't made it clear for your readers what you want them to like about Tara (on the first chapter), you haven't introduced what kind of personalities we will be seeing, or the potential (are they all serious, or are we going to see rushed, forced questioning?), and are we going to understand anything (you didn't make it clear we were meant to udnerstand anything in the first chapter).


your experimental prologue, oversimplified the story, but again characters are stil pretty simple. Still, for a prologue its not designed to be necessary but "complimentary". If you make a prologue, the 1st chapter still has to sustain itself by what it introduces.

39
Develop Your Story / Re: FNO
« on: July 31, 2015, 01:51:45 AM »
Revise the chapter and tell me what exactly about Tara sounds the most natural?

EDIT:
When i say be more direct, i'm talking about characterization. Be upfront and clear to the readers how to introduce the characters, what qualities the reader needs to see, and make it PAINFULLY obvious, that this is the type of person you want the readers to see. 

Dont just add in one trait and then the next and expect there's a connection. if you're adding a trait, make it obvious not just once, but multiple times.

40
you can provide a link at least

41
Develop Your Story / Re: FNO
« on: July 31, 2015, 01:08:28 AM »
At this point, i've read the "prologue". and i only see a two-dimensional character (Tara). There is something that you want in Tara that works "against" appeal and clear andintersting character.

You want the story to control the characters, but you dont let the characters control themselves. and it looks like you dont let them have any "true" control.

A good writer works on making the story control the characters, all while the story acknowledging who the character's are. You have one too many goals....honestly, its the fact that you want to be complex. each change you've made, you didn't make it simpler for you.


This prologue is simple, but its too simple. Tara sounds incredibly scripted. its also rushed, you just came up with this prologue. You're not even trying to think and revise and think about what story will come up. You made drastic changes, but at this point this is my theory:

you don't care about writing a good story....or at least its not the most important thing. Each time you made a revision, it was based on making a quality character. its about how all these classes affect the character, making things complicated.

at some level you know this.

42
Develop Your Story / Re: Demon Hunters
« on: July 30, 2015, 09:49:29 PM »
I read the first chapter, you definitely have no problem with flow as most people tend to have when they write a manga story for the first time. The characters seem well grounded, and i didn't feel like they were too forced.

With that said, i think the decision to throw us in the middle of a "new" enemy (spectre) may have not been a good choice. You have plenty of room to give us a different introduction or at least something leading up to it. Perhaps a more expanded scene where we can see the characters interract and fight off what seems to be a normal enemy.

The choice of naming cast based of supernatural/fantasy Garrett (P.I. / Thief character), Gremory, and Lillith (obvious). THe choice in name is far too obvious. I would recommend probably keeping "one", but actually giving them more normal names. Especially since it feels a bit tongue-tied switching between Gremory and Garrett. My personal choice is not even have Lilith as the occult culture is the one who used her for it. Lillith's origin has nothing to do with the occult.

Second, Specter / Spectre are really just "Ghosts". There's alot of room for you not to stick with the "demon" label. Especially since Ghost and supernatural events are much closer to the Steampunk genre rather than Demonology. If you insist on using demons, then perhaps label them and treat them in a way where you can make it more original (and in turn gives your story a whole new perspective and not just rely on "Demon Hunters" title).

43
I read the entire thing...the story is pretty decent. From beginning to end, you knew where you were heading with the story.

There's not much to say other than proper pacing and when to make a joke. For example: Page 10 was unnecessary. if you replace it with a more appropriate scene such as the people talking and letting out their worries, that would be great.

I also noticed how some other races such as "fairies" are mentioned, but not seen. manga works well by not introducing something unless needed. If fairies were needed to be introduced, put more emphasis on why. 

I think the explanation of Celestia and the mechanics of her retunring 17 years later seemed a little off. I dont think thats necessary. I know its difficult to rework a legend, but making sure it still sounds like a legend is something that needs to be seen diligently.


As for the art.....it looks like you're working hard. But your work looks best without color. I would suggest making the art first in black and white. And color in areas you want to color in adter its uploaded digitally. I can defintiely understand however if you don't have the means to do this at the moment. But i would suggest staying with black/white until someone can clean and redefine the lines for you to edit them in a photoshop to color them in.

44
Develop Your Story / Re: Demon Hunters
« on: July 28, 2015, 10:43:39 PM »
Well, all stories are quite generic if you get down to it. I'll be posting some in a bit!

If you remove all originalities an only focus on the "generic", then yes. But that's a problem already. if you are admitting all stories are generic then there is absolutely no point for you to even write.

If you want to write, its for the sake of your characters, your plot, and what makes them interesting to read.

Naming your story "demon hunters" is saying "I admit i have absolutely nothing to offer that is original". thats why many people come up with unique titles but also make fitting titles. You must have something about your story that makes it unique. even if its small but re-occuring, you can use it. Don't go too obvious and say "Main character A and main character B" or "Name of the land chronicles". think up something intersting that best describes the series in little words.

Is it a dark series? is it meant for adults or just young boys? What genres is it that you wont be able to see straight from the cover? Incorporate all that into your story.

I probably won't post anything beyond the first chapter, since one day I hopefully want this to become a manga.

I've posted in the looking for artists, is anyone here maybe interested in drawing up the prologue? It would be a very short one-shot, 25-30 panels.

if you can create it as a one-shot that would be fine. But a short story works. i'm also that way, what i did to go around it is prepare a completely alternate story that works well and focus on the one i'm prepared not to publish to the readers (all while keeping them equally good)

45
Develop Your Story / Re: FNO
« on: July 28, 2015, 10:00:18 PM »
Olsin has additional reasons to believe she would be an amnesiac, you could say that answer confirmed or dis-confirmed his doubts on what happened to her. Olsin reveals that he knows why she's an Amnesiac "What did he do to her". And if he is referring to the same "he" "He knows her so well it's creepy" (This is in response to her unordinary ease of controlling the game) then he is saying that whoever caused this is essentially created the game. Things that would become more apparent as the story progressed.
Olsin believing she's an manesiac is way too sudden. Keep in mind, we are seeing everythign in Tara's eyes, and you are nto taking advantage of picking up more information.  First of all, Olsin appears out of nowhere, and just answers like if he was a complete stranger.

You also fail to properly introduce characters yet again, you just throw them in there. SO everything being shown to us feels random.
Quote
Tara makes that assumption because Olsin says "Made especially for you" she considers maybe he made it, yes I believe she's drawing at straws to make an assumption like that. Also because Olsin has a bit of a deity appearance. He's a very arragant and controlling person.
But it doesn't look like she's drawing straws, it looks like you have bad writing. I know one can easily get offended by that, but if you make a character with flawed thinking, how are you going to make it apparent that its the character and not the author?

The bigger problem is that you simply have no idea how to write about an amnesiac. you attempted to write about someone who gradually was losing memories and that was difficult, now you're trying to write about someone who

Certainly I did consider all those questions for an amnesiac but again I pressured myself with the time constraints of the story, and I see now that's completely irrelevant.
Quote
But as with the prologue the message is far too cryptic.

There is one moment in which Tara attempts something courageous in this chapter. The idea is that while she is a brave person her "Class" in the game is more suited to her original personality. Her class does not allow her to be herself during game-play as easily. This becomes on of the reasons why she hates the game. 
For a beginning, you can't be "cryptic" unless we aren't meant to understand until chapters later, but the idea of showing us something we will understand later on has to be apparent. You threw us into Tara's beginning which was sloppy, fast-paced, and quite frankly, irritating.

I mean, sometimes i actually do think you just write really fast and don't review a single thing. Or at the very least i can tell when you review, you don't ask yourself "will the reader be able to see everything? what is apparent? what isn't? Is this good enough?"

I think the fact that you think being cryptic and over-the-top helps you, but it actually hurts you because its clear as day, you have absolutely no idea what to reveal, what to make apparent. I thought you were getting somewhere in the last rendition. At least you made the enemy cryptic and interesting, without showing off too much and hinting for more. But everytime you include Tara and mysterious guide into the mix, you just automatically stop. You don't follow the same rules and you just throw it all out there.

I'm sorry, but i shouldn't have to say all this, but its quite irritating. it really is. So here's my final advice: if you go for a normal first chapter, and stop trying to be so cryptic, and over-the-top with these ideas. you may come up with something decent.

but if you try too hard, try too be mysterious too fast, and not clear. you will have no foundation what so ever to gain any audience. IF you recognize this, i may continue to read. Try not to write an idea you can't work with. Which is exactly what you've been trying and continue to try. you refuse to start off simple yet clear, and strong foundation.


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