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Manga Artists => General Discussion => Topic started by: Canislupus54 on November 28, 2017, 02:18:02 AM


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Title: What do you think about Kickstarters for webcomics?
Post by: Canislupus54 on November 28, 2017, 02:18:02 AM
For the record, I think what I'm about to say is ridiculous. If you agree, please be polite about it.

So, I want to make one of my manga into a webcomic. Problem is, as I'm sure you know, few artists work for free, or even with the promise of later money and I have little funds. I just posted promising part of ad and Patreon revenue, but it occurs to me that that could be a remarkably slow payment method, depending on popularity.

So, I searched Kickstarter and turns out Kickstater campaigns for webcomics do exist. But, most of them have concept art or something. I'm a terrible artist, so all I'll ever have is scripts.

So, for everyone: Would you back a campaign with nothing but scripts, with the idea being funds would be used to pay for an artist(and pledge rewards, obviously)?

And, for artists: Would you work with someone who promised you Kickstarter funds as payment? If so, how much work would you do before the funds actually came in? A couple pages, some concept art, what?

Thanks for reading and for any answers you can provide.
Title: Re: What do you think about Kickstarters for webcomics?
Post by: Forlorn Serpent on November 28, 2017, 05:14:22 AM
I think crowdfunding will not work. i think it's like a 1/1000 chance to even get attention, let alone donations. However, if you leech behind a cause you might be able to ride it coattails to get publicity for your comic. but then your comic has to be about the cause in some way. But that's just marketing.

Taking your current status in your webcomic venture, i would say getting a side job for the comic might be best. I do Uber (for bills though), and i can easily make $50 a night just working 3 hours. I think that might be a better option so you can pay for concept art and maybe small preview chapter to get your idea across.
Title: Re: What do you think about Kickstarters for webcomics?
Post by: Canislupus54 on November 28, 2017, 05:20:59 AM
I think crowdfunding will not work. i think it's like a 1/1000 chance to even get attention, let alone donations. However, if you leech behind a cause you might be able to ride it coattails to get publicity for your comic. but then your comic has to be about the cause in some way. But that's just marketing.

Taking your current status in your webcomic venture, i would say getting a side job for the comic might be best. I do Uber (for bills though), and i can easily make $50 a night just working 3 hours. I think that might be a better option so you can pay for concept art and maybe small preview chapter to get your idea across.

Thanks for your input. I'll consider the job thing.
Title: Re: What do you think about Kickstarters for webcomics?
Post by: KeanFox on November 28, 2017, 08:07:38 AM
I'll talk from an artist point of view. Paying money means that you are serious about making it.
If I offer to draw your story for free, how do I know you are not going to lose interest and stop replying to my emails.
Money is a quick way to establish trust and that you mean business.

Establishing trust the long way, if the writer and artist are friends and like each other work.

If you want to make Kickstarter/Patreon you can commission two or three characters and some pages.
One option is learning how to draw. Hearing that may frustrate people. All I'm saying its an option. I feel some writers are acutely artist but they made one bad drawing then made the decision that they cant draw.

To answer your questing. Yea, I might work on a story for free if the writing hurt so good.
Title: Re: What do you think about Kickstarters for webcomics?
Post by: Canislupus54 on November 28, 2017, 10:09:37 AM
I'll talk from an artist point of view. Paying money means that you are serious about making it.
If I offer to draw your story for free, how do I know you are not going to lose interest and stop replying to my emails.
Money is a quick way to establish trust and that you mean business.

Establishing trust the long way, if the writer and artist are friends and like each other work.

If you want to make Kickstarter/Patreon you can commission two or three characters and some pages.
One option is learning how to draw. Hearing that may frustrate people. All I'm saying its an option. I feel some writers are acutely artist but they made one bad drawing then made the decision that they cant draw.

To answer your questing. Yea, I might work on a story for free if the writing hurt so good.

Hmm, if I commissioned some characters and pages, do you think they would have to be from the same artist who ultimately did the comic for representational purposes? Or would it be fine to use a different artist to get the general idea?
Title: Re: What do you think about Kickstarters for webcomics?
Post by: Forlorn Serpent on November 28, 2017, 10:48:12 AM
My thoughts:
Promo art can be from any artist. As long as the characters look the same.

The manga artist is a tough one. It would be ideal for the cover art and the manga art to be the same but sometimes it won’t match. I don’t think it matters. What is more worrying is if you need another artist mid chapter or post chapter.

Also, just be careful when hiring an artist for design purposes. Some might take ownership of the character design and you will have to pay them every time you use it. Just make sure who own the intellectual property of the character design and stuff. That’s why i think it’s best to do a rough design based on your own creation and hire someone to work off of it.
Title: Re: What do you think about Kickstarters for webcomics?
Post by: Canislupus54 on November 28, 2017, 10:59:00 AM
My thoughts:
Promo art can be from any artist. As long as the characters look the same.

The manga artist is a tough one. It would be ideal for the cover art and the manga art to be the same but sometimes it won’t match. I don’t think it matters. What is more worrying is if you need another artist mid chapter or post chapter.

Also, just be careful when hiring an artist for design purposes. Some might take ownership of the character design and you will have to pay them every time you use it. Just make sure who own the intellectual property of the character design and stuff. That’s why i think it’s best to do a rough design based on your own creation and hire someone to work off of it.

Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: What do you think about Kickstarters for webcomics?
Post by: Walter B on December 15, 2017, 04:58:38 PM
There are a ton of webcomics seeking funding on kickstarter and sites like that. Only a very small fraction of them actually get noticed. It is very hard.
Title: Re: What do you think about Kickstarters for webcomics?
Post by: The SlamJam on December 23, 2017, 05:10:56 PM
Outside of what's already said, from what i can tell you would need a proper following until you can consider kickstarter imo, which i dont think you have. Sorry to be blunt.

Secondly, rough scripts arent enough of a product to entice people to kick start someone.
Title: Re: What do you think about Kickstarters for webcomics?
Post by: SaiHawkeye on January 07, 2018, 06:36:40 PM
Pretty much going along with what the others have said, I would recommend getting a good amount of stable work out. Once you establish a community that loves your work and trusts that you'll produce in a timely manner you can begin thinking of crowdfunding.

Now the big thing is that crowdfunding is usually not a great way to make a living or get a strong start unless they perceive they'll receive something of value for it.

I would suggest maybe instead of Kickstarter, start a ko-fi or Patreon where people can donate a very small amount each month. Over time, your fanbase will grow and like so will the monthly donations. A lot of artists I know (cosplayers and digital artists) don't base their livelihoods on this but it sure does help boost overall income for your hobby/talent/passion.
Title: Re: What do you think about Kickstarters for webcomics?
Post by: LuciusM on January 11, 2018, 12:02:18 PM
I agree with the people who mentioned Patreon, or a similar platform. That sounds like much more suitable than a Kickstarter campaign.
Title: Re: What do you think about Kickstarters for webcomics?
Post by: Corycaly on January 11, 2018, 02:17:02 PM
I'll speak from a client point of view since I often give money to kickstarters projects (or similar projects from other sites). I had great and bad experiences.

Making the project means you are serious about it: you must know before launching it what you will do, how and when.
People give you money to make it happen, you can't suddently lose interest or be lazy because people trust you to work for real.
It's not at all the same as an amateur project because here, people give you money and expect something back. If you fail making the project people paid for, your reputation will be killed.

I don't know how many projects never get noticed and fail. What I know is that when they truly succeed, it's truly a great adventure...when the authors are serious. Keyword here is communication: people will ask questions, will want details, will worry or simply post comments. You will need extra time to answer them.
You can't stay silent for ages because people will be deceived and once again your reputation will suffer.

As a client, I am currently supporting two comics projects. They are both late but my impression is vastly different. In the first case, the author took time to explain why she's late (pregnancy and extra details to the art). I know exactly what is going on, it's easy to get news and to follow the project. It's reassuring and satisfying to take part on such a project.

Concerning the 2nd project: all communication stopped the instant the author got enough money. No answers, no news! I had to find out what was going on by asking questions to a fan page, whose admin had lots of pb to get answers from the author. I gave my money in may 2017, was supposed to get the book on july 2017. Still haven't received anything yet. The worst is that the author loves to communicate about her new projects and make new ones...leaving us in the dust.
Conclusion: her reputation will be tarnished and I don't think I will buy the next volume of the serie.

Patreon is a different system which may suit you better: you don't have to make a ultra big project, you can go at your own rythm. It's a more "relaxed" system that works better if you have little contents to post regularly.
Title: Re: What do you think about Kickstarters for webcomics?
Post by: Walter B on January 11, 2018, 06:37:49 PM
What made you support it Corycaly? Did you like the idea of the comic, was the art good, was the artist someone you already followed before?
Title: Re: What do you think about Kickstarters for webcomics?
Post by: Corycaly on January 12, 2018, 05:41:02 PM
I forgot to mention I gave money to other projects years ago: I liked the artists and the project idea and loved the result. I like the idea that the artists gets to do the project exactly as wanted, without editor interference. I also prefer to give my money directly to the author because I know exactly how it will be used. It also helps them to make a living out of their art.

Concerning the 2 projects I'm currently supporting: Both were made by artists I knew before this project. Both created their own series.

I think I discovered them either on deviantart or at Paris Japan expo yearrrrrrrsss agooooooo.

The first one is Orpheelin. I've always admired her art, the precise lineart, her awesome stories and universes. I gave money to her project campaign years ago for her book. I received it exactly as I expected it. It was a great adventure because she always kept us updated about the project and always answered to comments, questions.
I didn't hesitate to give money again for her 2nd project. This time, it's a bit late but we know exactly why and we are still getting regular updates and news. I have full confidence in the author. I know the project will be totally awesome.
She recently  signed a contract with a professionnal editor to work on a famous french comics series. I know it will be great!
Will I take part in another campaign from her? YES.

The 2d author: I think I discovered her at a manga convention but I'm not sure anymore. I love (loved?) her self published serie and wanted to get the new volume of the serie. I already got some problems with her before the project: orders not received (because they weren't sent of course), or incomplete. All problems were solved after some yelling.  Despite it, I still decided to give money for the new volume of the serie because I truly believed that this campaign would be organised and serious since it depended of a big site similar as kickstarters.
Now, 6 months later, I still get nothing and get more and more furious and deceived each day. I feel betrayed because she gave priority to other amateur projects, added new ones...when she was complaining that she already lacked time for the campaign project. Zero communication about the campaign project, zero news, no answer to comments or questions since the day she got the money. The worst: the lies when she pretended to be nearly done when It was absolutely not the case.
The result is simple: I will never buy anything from her anymore.  I may sell all the books I have from this author. 

Conclusion
Communication, dedication and  trust are essential. You have two similar situations ( lateness in a project) but two opposite results. You have to take very seriously the project, the time and efforts you'll need for it, and of course the link with the people who gave money. If you neglect one of those elements, all goes down. It's very hard, if not impossible to gain trust from client again if you messed up like the 2d author did. Your reputation depends on it!
Title: Re: What do you think about Kickstarters for webcomics?
Post by: HaKhan on April 19, 2018, 01:39:00 PM
I think you definitely need the artwork but the upside is that it might not have to be too developed.

But the marketing is the real challenge and you are just wasting your time if you aren't willing to really pound the pavement and find contributors nothing happens without massive action.


For the record, I think what I'm about to say is ridiculous. If you agree, please be polite about it.

So, I want to make one of my manga into a webcomic. Problem is, as I'm sure you know, few artists work for free, or even with the promise of later money and I have little funds. I just posted promising part of ad and Patreon revenue, but it occurs to me that that could be a remarkably slow payment method, depending on popularity.

So, I searched Kickstarter and turns out Kickstater campaigns for webcomics do exist. But, most of them have concept art or something. I'm a terrible artist, so all I'll ever have is scripts.

So, for everyone: Would you back a campaign with nothing but scripts, with the idea being funds would be used to pay for an artist(and pledge rewards, obviously)?

And, for artists: Would you work with someone who promised you Kickstarter funds as payment? If so, how much work would you do before the funds actually came in? A couple pages, some concept art, what?

Thanks for reading and for any answers you can provide.
Title: Re: What do you think about Kickstarters for webcomics?
Post by: theblacksands on July 28, 2018, 10:41:07 PM
My thoughts:
Promo art can be from any artist. As long as the characters look the same.

The manga artist is a tough one. It would be ideal for the cover art and the manga art to be the same but sometimes it won’t match. I don’t think it matters. What is more worrying is if you need another artist mid chapter or post chapter.

Also, just be careful when hiring an artist for design purposes. Some might take ownership of the character design and you will have to pay them every time you use it. Just make sure who own the intellectual property of the character design and stuff. That’s why i think it’s best to do a rough design based on your own creation and hire someone to work off of it.

Never pay anyone without their ABSOLUTE surrender of any rights to the work they do for you besides the right to authorship credit.

You pay the bills, they build your creation. The one who writes the checks is the one who owns the rights. Get it in contract before EVER letting anyone do work for you.
Title: Re: What do you think about Kickstarters for webcomics?
Post by: Walter B on August 09, 2018, 04:02:19 AM
I was having a discussion on another forum about how many followers you need to start seeing money on patreon/crowdfunding stuff. People said around 5k.

Is this accurate? How do you get there? Is there a point where people start sharing your art so your following grows exoinentially or what?
Title: Re: What do you think about Kickstarters for webcomics?
Post by: suuper-san on August 22, 2018, 02:53:11 PM
2k subscribers on youtube was when I started to make a tiny bit of pocket money with my old channel, so 5k would have been a substantial tiny bit of pocket money :P
popularity within your fanbase will automatically lead to better ratings and visibility on sites such as deviantart and youtube, which will lead to more subscribers which leads to better ratings/visibility. I don't know how exponential it is, as it will happen to everyone that does something so comparatively it might be a straight line.
don't know about anything else as I'm not popular with my art yet haha
Title: Re: What do you think about Kickstarters for webcomics?
Post by: LyleDes on October 18, 2018, 07:04:35 AM
I'm not a youtuber, but that's what I heard too. You need to get the ball rolling and then the algorithm starts showing your content to more and more people. Of course, the content has to be good so that the few of the viewers you have at first spend as much time on your videos as possible. It doesn't help if people turn off your videos after 2 seconds.