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Author Topic: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)  (Read 84986 times)

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Offline suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1380 on: October 06, 2019, 04:13:57 AM »
337/365 Cleaned
Got a bit of a drawing day today so we'll see if I manage to finish it or not, probably not :P



What's annoying and also not annoying is that I've only been working on my "bad" images the whole time, so I'm surprised at the relatively decent quality they're coming out at. I'm hitting so many walls of skill but I'm seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, I hope :P
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 05:31:42 AM by suuper-san »
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Offline Echo_River

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1381 on: October 07, 2019, 10:11:47 PM »
Cute chibis must be fawned over! *smacks down gavel*
Liking the lineart and especially the folds/creases/wrinkles in this one. Gives a slightly more 3D feel imo.
No one is perfect . . . that's why there's erasers and extra paper.
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Offline suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1382 on: October 08, 2019, 03:09:15 PM »
thanks!
I love that chibi style as well (and most chibi styles to be honest haha). Originally I preferred a much more deformed style , but this style allows me to add a lot more detail and it still feel normal.
That drawing is one stage before lineart, so I'm hoping I can beef up the quality even more later on. But I'm glad it looks like a lineart because it is meant to be neat :P
I'm trying to make the clothes more realistic although I'm not doing nearly enough studies for it, so it's mostly me winging it haha

349/365. super nearly there.


I'm starting to run into all sort of issues that I can't even put into words. Although I think mostly it can be summed up with "My ambition exceeds my ability and my available time"
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Offline suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1383 on: October 09, 2019, 12:52:17 PM »
Ohhhhh Yeahhhhhh finished!!!!
365/365 Cleaned/Resolved Sketches
heres a couple from the set that I worked on today


And the whole lot combined!
The total count ended up being 362 as some sketches got sorted into a different location and I can't find them
(-_-;)
-SCROLL WARNING-
Spoiler




















As always I have learnt a bunch of stuff, but a lot of what I learnt was sort of related to other stuff, I think.
I do feel like I have leveled up, but also my observational ability has also improved, and I can see, once again, how much work is ahead of me and where my skill is failing. It's a never ending cycle of improving your drawing skill, and then improving your observational skill to see where you can improve your drawing skill even more.

My thoughts and ramblings:
  • This has certainly produced some nice artworks along with some mixed quality artworks, but almost every one by far, was better than the original sketch which I was working with, so it has definitely been worth it. It really goes to show that a drawing can be improved and detail and quality can be added very consistently.
  • Because I haven't inked artworks in ages, and my quality has improved a lot since I last inked, it was difficult to tell how much detail to put into this stage of my illustrations. This was partly a problem in trying to reduce time spent on each sketch, but not skimping on the quality so that I shoot myself in the foot for the lineart stage. I also noticed that I was adding a lot more details consistently for things that I have never added before, like hems, stitching, folds in the nearly right places, so it felt like I was developing a style of how much detail I put in as well.
  • A couple of times I found myself not being able to work on my sketches because I was starting to get serious about them, which doesn't help productivity. For the most part, practice has been able to help keep this feeling at bay for the most part, and constantly telling myself that these sketches don't matter, they are sacrificial for my improvement (I can always redraw a favourite sketch better at another time anyway, so nothing is lost by working on them)
  • Being of higher quality, this stage of cleaning/resolving sketches did take much longer per piece than the finishing-sketch stage - an average of 8.5 minutes per piece compared to 3 minutes per piece. I mean, I'm working at such a pace that really those numbers are really tiny, but it hammers home that "time put in = quality got out". I imagine that this works both ways, trying to get a higher quality takes more time, but taking more time results in a higher quality. I'll be testing this with my masterpiece illustrations which I have planned to do soon, and see what quality results when a disproportionately large amount of time is spent on one sketch.
  • I was really impacted by the death of my nan, obviously, and this did affect my productivity for several weeks after. I found a break in pace by colouring some sketches helped to relax and to get my feelings in order and re-balance my schedule and motivation. Everyone deals with grief differently so I can't say it'll work for everyone, or even myself in the future, but really you have to do what's right for you, even if it means stopping drawing or whatever until you recover.
  • When I went on holiday, I did a lot of very-core study, balancing proportions and getting guidelines straight level and symmetrical, and when I came back, I found that my overall quality had increased by a notch or two, enough that the sketches almost felt like linearts in their consistency and quality. So it's good to make sure that your base skills, drawing lines and circles etc, are good, otherwise your drawings that rest on these skills will not be as good as they could be.
  • Halfway through the regime, I improved my workflow to allow for a higher quality illustration to be produced. this meant using more layers and redrawing the body so that I could remove the overall figure sketch underneath. As always, efficiency is a key skill to have, and looking for ways to improve your workflow will help to make sure you're not wasting your time, and producing good quality work.
  • I found that drawing all the different details (i.e. face, clothes,body) on different layers had a couple of advantages. It meant that I could save all the initial figure sketches to use later for body practice, so I got free sketches to work with, as well as meaning that I could say draw the hair, over the top of the clothes or face, and then erase anything that was wrong without erasing part of the clothing that I have drawn previously. From what I have seen, a lot of artists do split their work up into different layers for different reasons, and this certainly helped me. Colouring is an obvious area that uses multiple layers as well.
  • Working in bulk is still a great thing, but the only disadvantage, if you can call it that, is that when working on a set, it takes a long while to complete all of them, and until then, all of them are incomplete. So you need a large block of time to work in this manner, or save your work and carry on the next day. I have been doing the latter more often, to make use of smaller gaps of time in my day, but every time I start up again, the first sketch I do always takes longer than the rest as I'm still warming up. So it's best not to break it into lots of small sessions as that defeats the purpose of working in bulk, to streamline things.
  • Something that was annoying me was that I sometimes found myself unable to draw what I wanted, like I couldn't fix up the face how I wanted, or the hair etc. I think it would have been nice to have a few more studies mixed in with my regime, to boost my skill, but really I'm working with old sketches that have errors in them anyway, and so in a way, I just want to get rid of them by finishing them off as quickly as possible. That's probably not the best way to look at it, but the whole reason I'm in this mess is because I NEVER finished ANY artwork for 8 years, and so built up an immense backlog that should never have existed, in my opinion.
  • Overall this regime has taken 5 months to finish, which was a lot longer than my initial plan of about 2 months. A bunch of things have gone wrong, some out of my control, others were my fault, and so I just shrug on this one. I've gained a bunch of sketches and improved in skill (I hope), so I'll take my losses with my gains.
  • Hands and feet are something that are just a real pain to draw because they are pretty complex, but I think I'm getting better overall. I did do a lot more erasing when a hand wasn't right and tried to draw it again, so I got the feeling of working out the form and whatnot a bit better. The feet though were mostly not so great, because I have a serious lack of studies in that area.

Some stats for this regime:
Total time spent - 51 hours
Sets of images (pages) - 38
Start to finish - 5th May to 9th Oct

It didn't really take very long in terms of actual time spent to do this, but I have been spending time doing other stuff, such as my programming hobbies and other artworks unrelated to this regime, which made the regime last longer than it should as well.

My next "regime" is to finish off my requests on my request thread. I'm not sure what quality I'll work to, but really I want to blitz though them at nearly one a day if I can. I'm starting to use regime synonymously with project and task now haha

I'm tackling one project or regime at a time to completion and really focusing on it to get that streamlining effect and get stuff done. I'm also avoiding doing too many studies for the time being, because that can be a never ending stream of copying and trying to figure stuff out, without producing any actual work for it. In the future I'll be doing studies a lot more related to the pieces I am working on.

Thanks for listening and hopefully my insights might be somewhat useful to someone :P
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 07:04:44 PM by suuper-san »
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Offline Lord Kesashi

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1384 on: October 09, 2019, 07:23:40 PM »
As an art student, I have add the caveat that everything I say is equally as correct and relevant as it is wrong and irrelevant.

That being said, I've also found grief to be counterproductive to creating art. That makes sense until you realize that art is usually supposed to be about self expression, but emotions that extreme seem to be too much for art. Even historically, over the past 4000 years artists typically did not make art out of grief. People, when dead, were usually drawn out of love and endearment, or maybe hatred. The paradox of art.

This exercise does seem like something my cruel professors would assign. It's a brutal and arbitrary task that you try to pretend doesn't make you a better person, but you probably would never grow if you didn't do it. Personally when I find anything wrong with a drawing that I don't want to fix, I find it very difficult to keep drawing. It's as if the drawing has been totaled, like a car, and it'd be more cost effective to start over than to fix it.

I would say that you're getting more comfortable with your own style even when drawing from imagination. I'm still not great at working from imagination and best case scenario, I need to synthesize multiple references into one person.

That being said, working from reference may help you deal with proportions even if you reference it loosely stylize it the way you prefer. Eventually proportion will become like muscle memory.

You've been working with chibi recently, and it's a very unusual beast to handle. There are some things about chibi drawings that you need to be aware of. Chibi design is a horrible distortion of natural proportions, and adding more realism can make that feel very uncomfortable and uncanny. Think about how a realistic drawing of Squidward is much more uncomfortable to look at than his cartoon design in spongebob. Often cartoons will  make a character look disgusting by just making the character look more realistic as the punchline to a joke.

Another thing to be concerned about is how big the head is allowed to be. Sometimes you can get to a head size where it feels like the character just has a big head. As if the character is wearing a big head mask on top of their normally sized head. This has a lot to do with the proportion of the hands to the face. Obviously the main trait of Chibi versus realistic adults is the proportion of the heads, possibly even being 2 heads tall.

Most chibi artists deal with this by simplifying the drawing. Large outlines, no fingers, flat colors. This makes the character more like a gestural interpretation of a figure rather than a distorted human. It could also be easier to bring your chibi character to a more natural head size like 4 heads or 3.5 heads. You'll more comfortably be walking the edge of our willingness to suspend disbelief.

This is where me being an art student comes in and I'm going to contradict everything I said.

It's perfectly reasonable that the concept of a character having a big head is an aesthetic choice, and many people will probably find it aesthetically pleasing. It's not unusual for anime to make features of the body more extreme than they actually are. And it's not unusual for anime artist to take it a step farther than that. Ultimately I think its important to focus on your own sense of aesthetics, and once you come to master it you'll find many other people share those same tastes.

Offline suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1385 on: October 10, 2019, 04:13:45 AM »
Thanks for your comments and tips!

Quote
I have add the caveat that everything I say is equally as correct and relevant as it is wrong and irrelevant.
I have often said that myself haha. I think art is one of those funny things that changes on how you look at it :P

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I've also found grief to be counterproductive to creating art.
I nearly didn't produce any art, and I was only able to do what I did because I already had the sketches and I was working to a sketchy quality so I didn't need to think about it while doing it very much. I find that when I am angry or upset though, I do tend to busy myself a lot, such as tidying my room or something, so that might also contribute in my case. When I am depressed and draw I get some crazy creepy art haha, totally self expression changes with mood.

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you probably would never grow if you didn't do it.
Ahhhhhhhh yes, so true XD. When and if I finally get the level of art I want, I will look back at the path I took and say "how ridiculous"

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Personally when I find anything wrong with a drawing that I don't want to fix, I find it very difficult to keep drawing. It's as if the drawing has been totaled, like a car, and it'd be more cost effective to start over than to fix it.
I used to be this way for years, which is why whenever a drawing went wrong I would move on to the next one straight away. Having a perfectionist streak is only useful if you keep it under control, otherwise it can be frightfully depressing when you don't live up to your own standards. With my WIP processing scheme, I know that I can improve a drawing in the future, so I can progress stress-free through all the car wreck style sketches :P

Quote
working from reference may help you deal with proportions even if you reference it loosely stylize it the way you prefer.
Yeah, this is most likely true, but I like my work to feel like it's "all mine", so I don't like directly referencing while I am sketching, so I do studies separately or before I sketch, and then draw from memory or imagination afterward. It's kinda the same thing but in my ind, it feels different. For doing high level pieces though, I will probably use references alongside my artwork, but I haven't ever produced a high level piece, so I wouldn't know :P

Chibi certainly is an unusual proportion styleset to work with, and I admit that my current chibi style is way more realistic than it should be, but for some unknown reason, I really like it, like it doesn't feel out of place to me, which is strange because that's not what I would expect, as you say. So I'm working with it and at some point I will probably lean back towards more simplified proportions, digitless hands and so on. But for now, let's just say it's an experimental style haha

And yes large heads are an enemy of mine, a very old and longstanding habit from when I started drawing manga and thought "hey manga heads are large so I'll draw large heads", If you flick through that huge set of images I posted you'll see the head proportions are wavering wildly between too large and too small :P

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having a big head is an aesthetic choice
I suspect on some subconscious level I do really like my own style and proportions, even if it does tend to go against the flow a bit. But I also want to have the skill to chose to not draw a large head, I don't want to to be an unavoidable style choice. Weirdly though, all of my drawings on my request thread have normal head porportions, so I suspect it's a side effect of not having a plan in my mind when I am drawing that produces the bad proportions.


I posted this already but here it is again, a lineart WIP for one of my requests on my request thread
Spoiler

I figured out one reason for that annoying tilt across the whole image - my posture! I literally cant draw a horizontal or vertical line easily - the "natural" lines are a vertical that leans to the bottom right, and a horizontal that leans to the top right. I think basic anatomy makes it hard as well as you need to control multiple muscles, a curve is much easier as you only need to move one muscle to rotate your arm or wrist, say. So I need to draw with my eyes and make sure that I'm drawing what I think I'm drawing.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 08:20:37 AM by suuper-san »
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Offline suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1386 on: October 11, 2019, 11:01:07 AM »
Finished a request on my request thread.
It's meant to be a guy, by the way :P

click to enlarge


also here is the step by step. I used a lot of layers this time round, especially at the lower detail end, which takes less time per iteration.

also click to enlarge
Spoiler
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 02:10:46 PM by suuper-san »
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Offline Hati

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1387 on: October 12, 2019, 07:51:55 PM »
Wow! You're getting really good. Especially the detail on the wrinkles in the clothes. I love looking at your art Suuper-San ^^. Keep doing it.

Offline suuper-san

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Re: Suuper's manga (+digital and 3D)
« Reply #1388 on: Today at 02:20:31 PM »
@Hati thanks! I need to do more studies for sure but I do feel that I'm getting better :P

latest: a comission for Devola:



Since I haven't done a lineart regime yet I'm still a bit unsure of how to do my linearts but every now and then I get into a rhythm.
Also this one and the last one, I've been using much darker colours than normal, so I'm getting a bit of a wider experience with colours.
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