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Author Topic: If "Drawing" was an RPG skill!!  (Read 351 times)

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Offline suuper

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If "Drawing" was an RPG skill!!
« on: October 31, 2018, 12:14:00 PM »
Download the file and fill in the details to make an RPG themed artist profile/signature!
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VaCueGmZGsCoXE-xB5D-D0T53tleaQoh
it's a .html file (webpage) and should work fine if loaded in Chrome, I don't know about any other browser.
right-click and save the generated image to use as a signature :)
it should make a signature image like this one:


Each icon on the image reprisents a skill in drawing, such as hands, figures, backgrounds etc.
The more sketches/pages of work you have done in each area will give you a higher level. each level is slightly harder to reach than the previous one, which isn't completely untrue in art.
Your main level is the average levels of all your skills.
The file in the link above is to an interactive webpage that you can download, and fill in the number in the relevant skills to generate a profile of you as an artist.
You will be able to compare with anyone else using this method, as well as be able to notice what areas you are weakest in.

I would love to see how everyone's turns out so please post them, and I am very welcome to suggestions on how this can be improved in the future.

-----ORIGINAL POST (+OLD Explanation)-----

(is this even the right place for this topic? I get the feeling it's leaning more towards Pub than here lol)
In the milestones topic I came up with in interesting idea for quantifying your work as an artist and coming up with a level system. it's a bit choppy of an idea but I'd welcome feedback and ideas. I thought of it previously, but with Lego doing all these 1000X regimes I wondered what sort of way could an artist quantify their skill level.

It's more for fun than anything else, but it has a bit of practicalness mixed in. Please excuse the poor explanation as it's not a fully fledged idea yet but I don't think I can develop it any further on my own XD

Basically based on general RPG games (or virtually any game) where your skills level up when you use them, and applying it to art.

Basically each drawing "skill" (hands, faces, body, hair) is split up, and the amount you have drawn each thing is counted. so for example, Lego has done 1000 hands. each skill starts at 0 and levels up on a power of 2, so 2,4,8,16,32 and so on. that means his "hands skill" is at level 9, soon to become 10 (2^10 being 1024) (I think)

your artist level is either based on the average of all your skills, or you gain 1 point for every level of every skill, with the same 2,4,8 level boundaries.

This doesn't measure skill, but output, but since these are heavily linked I think it's worth a count. shame it's such a pain to measure. each level boundary being double is a reminder that you have to put in a lot of effort to significantly improve from the level you are at, and it's noticeable which area you haven't done much work in.
maybe double is too much but you get the idea.

I made this stupidly the other day on a high and Lego forced me to make this topic :P

here's one example just as a simple health bar style. Based on the 10,000 hours of mastery, although I'm using page count, not hours in this example.


red and blue for HP and MP obviously :P

here's a mini cool random mockup that would work as a profile image/signature (just about, given the tiny profile images) Probably better as a signature, and made longer like the one above.


It would be great if we could compare stats somehow, but it would be wildly out in terms of actual skill comparison. All good fun nonetheless :P

Let me know what you guys and gals think :P

This could actually be related to the badge system that has been floating round and occasionally gets mentioned (I can't find it in the search, did I imagine the whole thing?) ,with points awarded for entering in competitions or workshops (my programmer's blood is tingling!!)
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 07:45:25 AM by suupertramp »

Offline legomaestro

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Re: If "Drawing" was an RPG skill!!
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2018, 12:33:09 PM »
I believe you are talking about this https://forums.mangaraiders.com/index.php?topic=16307.15

This is what I made after ripping off your image

I don't know how this'd work exactly but program away. I'm interested in seeing what parameters would be counted and the like. It'd be some good fun methinks.

Offline suuper

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Re: If "Drawing" was an RPG skill!!
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2018, 01:18:36 PM »
Yup thats the thing. I searched badge and badges and nothing came up though lol

And that is a nice version. I should have posted a blank one, sorry :P

I would love to have a script that boots alongside MR that augments it to RPG style stuff, similar to those auto bot scripts you can use to cheat on browser games. Hasith mentioned something about something a while back but I doubt I'll ever make anything tangible haha

Although as far as comparing output goes, i think it's just us two duking it out at the top lol
Although I think a lot of artists here don't post all their junk as much as we do haha

As far as parameters/metrics, it would generally have to be something that most artists do, such as manga pages, gesture drawings, finished artworks etc.

just off the top of my head (and leaning towards manga artists in particular):

Completed work (original):
-Manga pages
-Artworks (individual illustrations)
-Backgrounds/3D stuff

Original Work (unfinished/sketches etc):
-Pages of sketches
-Poses (stick figures etc)

Studies (copies etc):
-Manga Pages
-Body (+gestures or separate)
-Hands
-Feet
-Other body parts (it's almost limitless what parts you can do focused studies on, so other than the main ones, everything else can go in "other"
-Clothing
-Backgrounds

too many and it's a pain to manage, too few and it's not detailed enough to gain any insight or compare properly.

I'm thinking rather than powers of 2 for level boundaries, maybe something like a Fibonacci sequence, that doesn't get too far away too quickly. would be great to have 100 as the top level for roundness. it needs to be achievable but insanely hard :P

EDIT: I'm thinking 50,000 sketches would count as level 100? That's 50 1000x regimes. Sounds absurdly hardcore but that's what it takes? maybe 10,000, but that seems too easy, you know? we can't be reaching level 100 in a years time, then what?

that being the case, here's an example chart for level boundaries. it's quite evenly spaced, but still requires more work to be done each level.
Spoiler
Level 1 - 10
Level 2 - 30
Level 3 - 60
Level 4 - 100
Level 5 - 150
Level 6 - 210
Level 7 - 280
Level 8 - 360
Level 9 - 450
Level 10 - 550
Level 11 - 660
Level 12 - 780
Level 13 - 910
Level 14 - 1050
Level 15 - 1200
Level 16 - 1360
Level 17 - 1530
Level 18 - 1710
Level 19 - 1900
Level 20 - 2100
Level 21 - 2310
Level 22 - 2530
Level 23 - 2760
Level 24 - 3000
Level 25 - 3250
Level 26 - 3510
Level 27 - 3780
Level 28 - 4060
Level 29 - 4350
Level 30 - 4650
Level 31 - 4960
Level 32 - 5280
Level 33 - 5610
Level 34 - 5950
Level 35 - 6300
Level 36 - 6660
Level 37 - 7030
Level 38 - 7410
Level 39 - 7800
Level 40 - 8200
Level 41 - 8610
Level 42 - 9030
Level 43 - 9460
Level 44 - 9900
Level 45 - 10350
Level 46 - 10810
Level 47 - 11280
Level 48 - 11760
Level 49 - 12250
Level 50 - 12750
Level 51 - 13260
Level 52 - 13780
Level 53 - 14310
Level 54 - 14850
Level 55 - 15400
Level 56 - 15960
Level 57 - 16530
Level 58 - 17110
Level 59 - 17700
Level 60 - 18300
Level 61 - 18910
Level 62 - 19530
Level 63 - 20160
Level 64 - 20800
Level 65 - 21450
Level 66 - 22110
Level 67 - 22780
Level 68 - 23460
Level 69 - 24150
Level 70 - 24850
Level 71 - 25560
Level 72 - 26280
Level 73 - 27010
Level 74 - 27750
Level 75 - 28500
Level 76 - 29260
Level 77 - 30030
Level 78 - 30810
Level 79 - 31600
Level 80 - 32400
Level 81 - 33210
Level 82 - 34030
Level 83 - 34860
Level 84 - 35700
Level 85 - 36550
Level 86 - 37410
Level 87 - 38280
Level 88 - 39160
Level 89 - 40050
Level 90 - 40950
Level 91 - 41860
Level 92 - 42780
Level 93 - 43710
Level 94 - 44650
Level 95 - 45600
Level 96 - 46560
Level 97 - 47530
Level 98 - 48510
Level 99 - 49500
Level 100 - 50500

and here's an example of how Lego's level would change on each 1000x regime.

Spoiler
1000 - Level 13
2000 - Level 19
3000 - Level 24
4000 - Level 27
5000 - Level 31
6000 - Level 34
7000 - Level 36
8000 - Level 39
9000 - Level 41
10000 - Level 44
11000 - Level 46
12000 - Level 48
13000 - Level 50
14000 - Level 52
15000 - Level 54
16000 - Level 56
17000 - Level 57
18000 - Level 59
19000 - Level 61
20000 - Level 62
21000 - Level 64
22000 - Level 65
23000 - Level 67
24000 - Level 68
25000 - Level 70
26000 - Level 71
27000 - Level 72
28000 - Level 74
29000 - Level 75
30000 - Level 76
31000 - Level 78
32000 - Level 79
33000 - Level 80
34000 - Level 81
35000 - Level 83
36000 - Level 84
37000 - Level 85
38000 - Level 86
39000 - Level 87
40000 - Level 88
41000 - Level 90
42000 - Level 91
43000 - Level 92
44000 - Level 93
45000 - Level 94
46000 - Level 95
47000 - Level 96
48000 - Level 97
49000 - Level 98
50000 - Level 99
51000 - Level 100

Suddenly level 13 for only 1 set of 1000 sketches might seem a jump, but in terms of knowledge gained, it IS a huge jump. near the end you only gain one level for each set of 1000 sketches and it's a lot more real.

I don't think a linear scale would work so well, as lower levels would feel a lot more unattainable.
(yes I used Excel to make these tables don't think I ever take more time than needed lol)

EDIT 2: have another signature style image. random icons, probably copyrighted, don't mean anything for now.
maybe lose the profile image completely?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 05:47:19 PM by suupertramp »

Offline legomaestro

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Re: If "Drawing" was an RPG skill!!
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2018, 07:15:18 PM »
You're a machine man hahaha. Yeah I'm good with this sort of levelling system.

I hear you on the profile picture, but it just looks good for some reason. In the interests of practicality and speed though I'd leave it off indeed. Those icons though... They fit too well.

Is there any room for vehicles and creatures?

Offline suuper

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Re: If "Drawing" was an RPG skill!!
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2018, 04:26:51 AM »
haha well programming and numbers is my strong point :P
cool you like the icons, I dont mind keeping them if we can find an actual use/definition.

Vehicles crossed my mind, but I forgot completely about animals.

Sometimes the trouble is how to categorize things, such as vehicles, is that a background, an item/prop, or a separate category? I'm hitting the same problem in my mini handbook as a lot of things can go in multiple places.

Offline MahluaandMilk

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Re: If "Drawing" was an RPG skill!!
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2018, 02:59:36 PM »
Well, IIRC, I've completed a few manga pages (even a really nice one over on Ecchiworld, hrk), but should I go back and count all my figure drawings and practice pages (if I can even find them anymore?)
And, even if I can find all of them, where should I start counting? I've been drawing since like, third grade, and I'm pretty sure I still have those around somewhere (probably at my parent's house and not easily accessible form here, though).

Offline suuper

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Re: If "Drawing" was an RPG skill!!
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2018, 05:25:11 PM »
In theory you can count from as far back as you can recall, although personally I only count from when I started drawing manga, not including my school work in art lessons. Really it doesn't matter much unless you knocked out thousands of pages when you were 10 years old, in which case yes it might be better to count them in :P

as to what you count, my suggestion in this thread is that we count all the different types of pages separately to build up a profile of our work and to notice where we haven't drawn as much, as well as some friendly competition.

still wondering how separately it should be counted. for example, do male and female figure drawings get counted separately? It's almost a personal decision, so it might be that each artist decides how they split their statistics and sketch counts. But then artists like myself who split too much will end up with lower levels that someone who doesn't, but they will have more detailed statistics instead.

I'm thinking rather than a standardization, to have a few common statistics that encompass most of an artists work (such as overall number of pages of sketches, number of manga pages, number of completed illustrations), and a few "empty slots" in which you can put any statistic you think is your best. That suits the personal and unique nature of art and styles methinks.

Offline MahluaandMilk

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Re: If "Drawing" was an RPG skill!!
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2018, 08:29:38 PM »
Whewboy. Guess that'll be on my to-do list tomorrow. I know I have at least two solidly filled notebooks up here with me. That'll rack up real quick. I'll just have to make sure all the pages used are mine; I know I let my friends use a couple of pages once or twice.

There will be almost no way for me to fully count figures or complete works or whathaveyou, so I'll do my best, I guess.

Offline suuper

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Re: If "Drawing" was an RPG skill!!
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2018, 10:38:05 AM »
awesome. Keep a hold of those numbers and I'll work on some sort of standard to display it :P
If you have a cool idea for displaying it in a profile picture or signature as shown previously then I'd love to see that too :P

Offline legomaestro

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Re: If "Drawing" was an RPG skill!!
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2018, 08:51:01 PM »
On your question on where to sort animals and vehicles, I've got a wonky one: Vehicles should indeed be backgrounds, along with bottles, plants, furniture and 3d shapes in general.

Because it's a manga forum we are honestly first and foremost interested in the characters we draw, so I understand making different categories for character-based stuff e.g clothing, expressions e.t.c  so yeah.


Offline suuper

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Re: If "Drawing" was an RPG skill!!
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2018, 08:09:54 AM »
Quote
Because it's a manga forum we are honestly first and foremost interested in the characters we draw
That's a decent observation (I sort of got carried away haha), and true, pretty much all of the artists here fall into that description, many of which don't even draw a background at all.

I think small items, such as watches, phones, swords etc, which you would draw regardless of a background might be separate though? I just can't get that thought out of my head :P maybe that would come under clothes for a compromise?

Should copied works be separated from original works? because that almost doubles up every category. I think backgrounds and sketches can be joined , copied with original, but definitely keep manga pages and illustrations separate?

Or how bout....combine them but use a stacked coloured bar graph?

lemme just make an image. As far as it goes for everyone making their own - I can make a small program that will fill out all the details and make the image for you, so we can make everything look nice :) Unless everyone fancies making their own one, or making different styles? It might get a bit strange.

and there we go. I decided the bars would look messy being two colours (also confusing since they are meant to indicate individual level progression, not complete work count), so I did small pie charts instead. probably unnecessary?


it's now got confusing enough to add a key
red-traditional
blue-digital
green-original
yellow-referenced/copied

the 3 main bars represent
-complete page count
-completed illustration count
-hands
and are filled to the progression in that level
the pie charts represent the proportion of digital to traditional, and copied to originals (colourwise this could be simplified by only showing one proportion, ie if 74% is digital, it's obvious what the other is so it's not necessary to specifically show it)

let me know what you think of the break down. its useful as if you don't want to use it, you can easily remove it and everything still makes sense. for simplicity it might be worth removing something anyway.

my reason for including it was that in my opinion, drawing something from your imagination is significantly different(/better?) to copying something, so you need to make sure you are not just copying all the time.

EDIT: after rereading I felt that version was so stupid I remade it again. A lot more confident in this one, although I miss the pie charts :P


starting to lean the focus to manga artists in particular now.
I'm starting to see how this might help an artist (me) to legitimately level up, because you can see your levels and you are like "I should really level up my clothing, it's really low", so you can go away and grind with a purpose in view. This is taking shape better than I expected.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2018, 11:44:04 AM by suupertramp »

Offline MahluaandMilk

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Re: If "Drawing" was an RPG skill!!
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2018, 03:05:26 PM »
So now my question is how frequently would these charts be updated? Once a month? It seems like a lot of work...

Offline suuper

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Re: If "Drawing" was an RPG skill!!
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2018, 03:26:02 PM »
Yes, it pretty much is a pain lol. One would probably update it proportionally to the amount of work you have done recently, so if you have just finished a marathon of sketches, you might want to update right away. If you've been having a slow month, there might not be much point updating until say 2 months have passed.

But I can't imagine updating it more frequently than monthly or fortnightly. I just this minute made the first test script to generate a signature image like the last one I posted, so it will be a lot easier to produce the image and update it.

Secondly, to make it easier to update, it's worth having an excel file to track the date you last totalled and the totals, so you can just add your latest counts to the totals stored. I'll make a demo for that too although I imagine you get the idea.

Offline legomaestro

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Re: If "Drawing" was an RPG skill!!
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2018, 06:48:44 PM »
Those pie charts were a bit insane hahaha. I couldn't follow but I can understand why you liked them. They looked just a bit better.

And yeah unless you make a widget or something (or hey, why not think big: Android app! Muhuhahahaha!) plugging in data that updates itself and is directly plugged in to the meters doing this by yourself should be more of an annual thing. At the very least after every successful regimen because lel what's the point of updating it when you haven't levelled up yet.

So do those icons mean anything yet or are they just there? I don't wanna do 1000 feet haha XD

Gotta say I love RPG mechanics anywhere and everywhere.

Offline suuper

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Re: If "Drawing" was an RPG skill!!
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2018, 05:44:35 AM »
The pie charts were the proportion of digital/traditional and original/copied for each skill. It was indeed needlessly complicated lol

The icons are becoming more meaninful. at the moment:
top right icons:
digital to traditional work proportions
copied to original proportions

left icons:
all sketches/pages produced
time spent? (How would that even work)
manga pages drawn

right icons:
hands drawn
feet drawn
figures drawn
backgrounds drawn

still working on what figures to show exactly,  feet are shown a lot less than hands to they are not as important, so what other things should be in it's place, or should it be there anyway, etc.

I too love RPG mechanics. Once I actually fill in my own values I think it will really be an incentive to push ahead with whatever is behind.

An app would be great but that's out of my abilities lol. I would love it to seamlessly integrate with MR but that's also a big leap :P

here's the link to the first prototype image generator, based on the last image I posted. It's hopelessly incomoplete but I thought I would share :P
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WUb16Rgo65eR4FSLLbc_6Rpu8ERCnau0
download and it should be a .html (webpage) file. click to run. right click the generated image to save it.

I'm thinking maybe to have an empty slot that corresponds to a skill we are personally working on that is a bit random, like say Chibi drawings, or foreshortening, that is too specific to have for everyone.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 06:55:54 AM by suupertramp »